SSD's too small?

[lateagain]

I didn't really know how to title this but I am aware that it is becoming an issue.

When the first SSD's started shipping with new computers the cost meant that many manufactureres/constructors were using quite small SSD's to put the OS on and then installing a second HDD (usually a 1TB one) for everything else.

Great idea? In theory? Great start up speed and the OS flies along. However M$'s OS's have always had areas of flab, poor programming(?) and wastage.

Many like me, who bought machines 2-3 years ago had 64Gb (or less) SSD'd in their machines with the OS on. In my case Win7 64bit Home Premium. Over the subsequent usage and despite constant management of my machine for deleting rubbish I've found that the SSD has slowly filled up. I know I'm not alone because there's an industry grown up of hardware, software and advice on how to ghost your drive on to a bigger one. Today most machines ship with a minimum of 120 Gb SSD for the OS.

A useful utility to find "bloat" and unwanted files is TreeSize. Google for a free version (there is a payware upgrade with more features) and you can download this excellent utility. "TreeSize Free" is a hard disk space manager. It presents your folders in "explorer style" but shows you the size of everything.

If you're having a problem it's well worth installing this as a first step to see where your space is being used.

Having prepared to ghost my drive I was doing some final checks and I noticed a really "Standout" system file. It was a staggering 6Gb!!!!

It was called hiberfil.sys . A quick Google What is hyberfil.sys in Windows 7? sent me straight to "How to Geek's" page. It turns out this massive file is part of the OS that controls the Hibernate function in the Start/Stop drop down menu!!!

Now you may use Hibernate? I never do. Why then is there 6Gb of data cluttering up my SSD?

The good news is that How to Geek tells you how to disable Hibernate in your Start/Stop menu. The even better news is that having done so the hiberfil.sys file disappears as if by magic !!! Et Voila! 6Gb of disc space clawed back and the machine working as it should again.

I'm still going for the larger SSD ghosting. I'll still use the larger SSD for the OS only. The old one is just begging to be used for a few Mini Routes methinks?

Hope this is useful to someone out there.

Cheers

Geoff

[rogermatthews]

HI Geoff. Thanks for this tip and your experience, I am one who is just beginning to experience an SSD, having built my new system only 10 days ago!

I presume by 'OS only on the SSD' you mean other programs as well. I've now got all my programs installed (apart from MSTS) on the SSD and it still takes up less than 45Gg. But then I have moved all Windows temp files, including IE, outlook archive, system files, downloads etc to a hard drive. I think 64Gg should still see many people OK.

As for me, I've some way to go. I got a 256Gg SSD, thinking I'd install MSTS on it, only to realise subsequently that using TrainStore would constantly be flashing it - hence I put it on the hard drive. So goodness knows what I'll do with the other 200+ Gg. Dumb or what!

Roger

[lateagain]

I presume by 'OS only on the SSD' you mean other programs as well.

No in my case most of my programmes are on the HDD. I've been keeping Programmes and data on seperate drives for years.

I think 64Gg should still see many people OK.

Maybe ....but. There's only one rule about any Hard Disc? You need one twice the size you think you do and that will soon fill up

As for me, I've some way to go. I got a 256Gg SSD, thinking I'd install MSTS on it, only to realise subsequently that using TrainStore would constantly be flashing it - hence I put it on the hard drive. So goodness knows what I'll do with the other 200+ Gg. Dumb or what!
Roger

I was a huge fan of TrainStore but after quite a few corrupted installs of MSTS I keep everything as a Mini Route Now. Hard Discs are cheap and even a smaller SSD will hold a good few Mini Routes. The one big advantage of Mini Routes is that if any errors creep in you know where to look AND it doesn't affect any other route. To Achieve this I keep a "virgin" fully tweaked and updated version of the default MSTS (bin, New Roads, Xtracks, magnetic platforms etc.etc. ...in other words all the basic upgrades) and merely add a new route to a copy of this. I then use the tutorial as a check list to set up a mini route. All the error checking programmes just need to be pointed at that specific install of MSTS and they work fine. Mini Loader works fine with bigger routes (although it doesn't have all the facilities of Train Store).

BTW if by "flashing" you mean the read\write limitations of SSD's most of the tech review sites regard this as alarmist nonsense and point out that it would take way beyond the average lifetime of most PC's for this to become an issue?

I too have bought a larger SSD purely for FSX and most Flight Sim fans seem sold on them. FSX is of course a different beast to MSTS because it only has ONE world and the enhancements you add to that.

BTW I noticed recently that WD (?) are making large capacity HDD's with 64 Gig SSD Cache as a compromise for speed with storage. Yet to find any reviews of this though.

Cheers

Geoff

[rogermatthews]

HI Geoff

in my case most of my programmes are on the HDD

Well, if the OS is taking up 64 Gg, a good clear out would seem in order! Have you moved all the temp files etc? You're losing out by not having other programs on the SSD, they all start so quickly.

Personally, I don't like mini routes, but that is purely personal - we all pays our money and takes our choice!

the read\write limitations of SSD's most of the tech review sites regard this as alarmist nonsense

Well maybe, though it's fair to say that opinion is still divided. There is no question that there is a limitation, and no question SSDs are more reliable these days (and getting moreso). I take your point; my first instinct was to say hang it, and just use it and not worry, but I just feel that continually writing eg temp internet files, and trainstore constantly 'moving' stuff around, is needlessly using up the life - not like just changing or writing a letter once in a while, say.

In fact, just having the programs (& OS) on the SSD, with storage and all temp files elsewhere is working quite well for me, except that I'm not getting 'instant' firing from TrainStore.

Incidentally, I share your view that the OS will start to 'grow' over time, though I#d be interested if it gets to 64Gg. Also, however well my new system is working at the moment, in 2 or 3 months the old problems, crashes, slowing down etc will start to creep in!

Cheers

Roger

[lateagain]

Hi Roger,

Like you I was against Mini Routes but because of my experience working on MEP (which BTW will be a Mini Route and in fact created the need for Mini Loader because of it's size, stock pack and number of acts...) I'm totally converted to them.

I'd still suggest you go with the SSD. Keep it for MSTS ONLY ?

I really don't need my box to load documents or spreadsheets any faster? . Watching my bank account get smaller to pay bankers bonuses and pay dividends to Energy Company shareholders happens QUITE fast enough!!!

The fact is that SSD's are improving not only in reliability but also in performance AND price? Hang It! Go for it? If the SSD packs up and those who cried "alarmist" are wrong.... well at least you'll have had some blinding performance from our favourite Sim? Also by the time any problems become (if they do?) evident SSD's will be cheap as Corn Flakes?

Look at it another way. Nothing on your box works more than the OS? If this was an issue putting the OS on an SSD would be nuts?

As to the size of my files? Win7 64 bit. My Brother in Law checked his 32bit file size and guess what? It was half the size!
MSTS will never benefit from 64bit but FSX certainly benefits from the extra memory.

Perhaps I should have mentioned 64Bit because that is probably where my problem lies?

Geoff

PS I think this is a "moment in time" issue because most high performance machines are shipping with a 120/128 Gig SSD now anyway.

[rogermatthews]

HI George - sorry, just been out for a meal!

No more about the mini routes - that's personal choice and another thread!

Look at it another way. Nothing on your box works more than the OS? If this was an issue putting the OS on an SSD would be nuts?

It's the WRITING to the SSD that is the issue, not reading from it. Even many of the 'alarmist' posts acknowledge that if there is a lot of writing (from memory, I think some on-line gamers might have that problem, I do not) then it will be significant.

Perhaps I should have mentioned 64Bit because that is probably where my problem lies?

I'm running Win 64 bit pro, and still only 45 Gg WITH all the other programs installed. You might want to check whether the temp internet files (etc) are full of video downloads etc?

Roger

[MGD11]

My desktop uses both a SSD and a normal disk HDD; I use my SSD (50GB stated, 46.5 in use) for Windows 7 (Home Professional 74 bit, I might add) and a few extra bits, with everything else going on the normal HDD (500GB stated, 465 in use).

That way, I get the best of both worlds - fast boot-up and sizable storage for games.

However, I should point out that Laptops with SSDs are generally suggested for light gaming, office work or watching stuff online. I think proper gaming (and simming) is not what they're designed for.

[CaptainBazza]

My desktop uses both a SSD and a normal disk HDD; I use my SSD (50GB stated, 46.5 in use) for Windows 7 (Home Professional 74 bit, I might add) and a few extra bits, with everything else going on the normal HDD (500GB stated, 465 in use).

This is the setup I'm planning; did you encounter any problem getting the sys to recognise the SSD Sata?

Cheers Bazza

[lenfish]

it is the fact that a block of data on an SSD has to be erased before it can be re-written to that causes the so called "wear", because a block can only be erased so many times. Recent SSD's employ sophisticated wear-levelling techniques to ensure that all blocks are erased evenly and also set aside some of their capacity as spare so corrupted/unusable blocks can be replaced.
Most SSD failures are due to faulty hardware and almost certainly not due to wearing out. From a wear point of view their life expectancy is measured in many years.
I have an SSD for RW and Windows and standard HDD's for storing other data. No problems with Windows recognising the SSD's or the data on them. As far as Windows is concerned it just sees an SSD as another drive.

Regards,

Len

[rogermatthews]

HI Bazza

did you encounter any problem getting the sys to recognise the SSD Sata?

I had no problems at all, basically. If it's a clean install, you might want to set the BIOS to read AHCI (as opposed to normal SATA) but even then there won't be a problem.

The only oddity I encountered, which nobody on the PC forums could resolve, was when I plugged in some of my normal hard drives from my old PC. With some plugged in, (no OS on them by the way) Windows simply wouldn't boot (and the SSD was set as the first boot disk in the BIOS). In the end I had to back up and format the drive on my old PC, then it was OK.

Roger

[MGD11]

This is the setup I'm planning; did you encounter any problem getting the sys to recognise the SSD Sata?

Cheers Bazza

Not a single problem at all. It might've helped in that I originally had everything installed on the normal HDD before re-installing Windows on the SSD.

That said, when I installed Windows 7 on the SSD the only change to the BIOS or the Windows 7 install was the HDD ordering/selection. I haven't touched the ACHI/SATA modes at all. Windows installed on the SSD in a matter of about 20 minutes from start to finish, including setting up the OS for the hardware before I was presented with the desktop all to myself.

[rogermatthews]

[quote I haven't touched the ACHI/SATA modes at all][/quote]

This is what I missed first time - guidance is not always very clear from manufacturers of SSDs/mobos. I too just installed it with normal SATA mode (which works fine) but, from what I can understand, ACHI is what Windows uses to recognise the drive as an SSD, and therefore bypasses defragging, etc. I had to cancel these things manually.

I may be wrong

Roger

[lenfish]

As far a I know, Windows will recognise the device as an SSD regardless. Running the Windows Experience Index (Windows7/8) supposedly detects your SSD and sets it up as one, disabling defragging, enabling TRIM etc.

Regards,

Len

[rogermatthews]

Running the Windows Experience Index (Windows7/8) supposedly detects your SSD and sets it up as one

Thanks Len, I stand corrected - MAYBE! Trouble is, I have run the Windows experience (a while ago) and yet when I look at the defrag screen thingy, it still shows my SSD drive as a disk with its defrag status - plus the words "only disks that can be defragmented are shown"! What's more worrying, even though I have scheduled defrag turned off manually, it is telling me that defrag was run two days ago.

Maybe Windows experience only recognised it if AHCI is enabled? I'm baffled at this stage, but I'm going to look into it more

Roger

[lenfish]

Are you running Windows 8 by any chance? I went into the defrag app. and to my horror my SSD's are shown! However, found a Microsoft article explaining that although Windows 7 does not show SSD's in the defrag list if they are detected, Windows 8 does. It goes on to explain that a Windows 8 SSD defrag is not a traditional defrag but a special routine for optimising SSD's. Confused? Join the club.

Regards,

Len