Steam Dreams with 4MT

[ivorengine]

Oh dear.

I had managed to successfully complete all the early WoLS scenarios ( Port Road ) without the aid of the auto fireman. I really thought I had the hang of it. Driving steam locos that is.

Alas, the rather good 4MT tender loco and accompanied scenario from DT ( 4MT Over the Top ) has me dazed and confused. Has anyone managed this ? The description says it is easy between Manchester and Penistone ? It wasn't for me.

Any tips would find me very grateful. I know it recovers quickly from low boiler pressure. But I just can't get it to pocket rocket.

As previously mentioned I have managed all steam scenarios with a little concentration so I am not a complete novice.

[msey0002]

I envy you ivorengine, while I love steam, I have difficulty even with autofireman on

[SquidvT]

Not tried that particular scenario yet, but here are some general tips to the 4MT. They work for me at least


Ideal fire mass appears to be around 1200, keep it there always.
I keep the reverser very low, around 20% seems the most efficient
Be prepared to mortgage the boiler when climbing long gradients. You will lose steam, but she will keep on going and bounce back quickly on the flat or incline.

The 4MT does seem to be one of the more tricky locos to fire, to me it seem more realistic than some of the other bullet proof kettles that seem to be able to deal with anything and still blow off.

Good luck!

[pvonburen]

(4MT - Over the top) : It is difficult to run this scenario. I run it two times (auto fireman off). With the best result, I arrived 2 minutes to late at Penistone, but at time at Sheffield (without speed excess). The easy part is from Penistone to Sheffield (mistake from the scenario description).

I will retry this scenario with the indications from SquidvT.

[Rockdoc2174]

I think there are a number of problems here. I tried the scenario with and without auto-fireman and in neither case could I get it to steam adequately on the drag up from Dinting to Woodhead. Then I worked out that the dampers aren't mapped and M/Shift+M do nothing so I have no idea how far open the dampers have been set by default. The F5 HUD says they're On but who knows?

Secondly, the timings of the scenario are just wrong. Like other people, I reached Penistone 2 minutes down but I still reached Sheffield 8 minutes early without breaking the speed limit. That's just plain silly so I cannot see how this scenario has been tested before release, unless the testers got a loco with a different set of characteristics to the released version.

Keith

[DaveDewhurst]

I think there are a number of problems here. I tried the scenario with and without auto-fireman and in neither case could I get it to steam adequately on the drag up from Dinting to Woodhead. Then I worked out that the dampers aren't mapped and M/Shift+M do nothing so I have no idea how far open the dampers have been set by default. The F5 HUD says they're On but who knows?

If you are comfortable editing bin files you can fix this yourself, but it might be just as easy to await the promised update from DT which should address this.
If they are on target it should be this evening.
Basically what you need to do is search for "Damper" in the bin file and youll find there are two entries, copy the interface element from one to the other and delete the extra "Damper" entry.
Or just live with it for a while longer, until you mentioned it I hadnt even noticed, and had to go and check.

Dave

[Rockdoc2174]

I'll wait, Dave. I need my hand holding very tightly when I delve into .bin files!

I'm actually glad that the boiler doesn't steam excessively. Many RW steamers can take a real flogging and never drop pressure - the 2MT mogul is one. If and when the dampers are fixed on this one, I hope it doesn't allow the loco to make endless amounts of steam. I think the generation rate needs to be adequate for a gentle climb with a reasonable load but be a definite challenge for a long, steep climb and/or with a load close to the class limit, such as Dinting to Woodhead in this scenario.

Keith

[DaveDewhurst]

Aha, Done it

Arrived at Peniston @ 11:33 & 36 seconds.

Then arrived at Sheffield at 11:49


I forgot pressing ctrl&s didnt keep the hud on but I did really do it


Dave

[StanierMogul]

I've struggled with this one too....I pretty much exclusively drive steam, fully manual and I have to say I've found the 4MT a tricky beast in general. As a couple of other people have mentioned I've also wondered if the dampers aren't fully open by default as she does seem to be a bit tetchy about generating steam, anything above 25% cut off on even a moderate regulator setting seems to cause a bit of a steam pressure haemorrage. I do really like the loco though and I certainly enjoy the challenge of it, like others have said it makes a refreshing change from some of the bomb proof kettles (like the LMS Jubilee for example). I did some experimentation on the Port Road to see what seemed to work and what didn't and (from a standing start) on the climb up to Lochanhead I've found it's possible to get her to summit with 4 coaches easily provided you use full regulator with a very low (12% ish) cut off. She even manages it with the long frieght quick drive option although I limped over the top speed wise at about 10 mph.

On this particular scenario after a number of attempts I managed to get to Penistone about a minute late and I reckon that it should (just) be doable provided I get my speed right in the very early stages. The only way I've managed to get her to hold (and regenerate) steam pressure mid run on this scenario (and then only just before the major climb) is to have the blower permanently on and just be very, very careful, taking advantage of all gradient slacks to pick up a few extra mph without taxing steam pressure, and managing to refill the boiler and then get pressure up to about 210 PSI (so that I've got plenty to gradually loose) just before the climb kicks off. If I can find a way to bleed my speed incrementally less slowly on the climb I reckon I should just about do it but I think I need to be a few mph faster in the early stages, really. Whether it was intended or not the requirement for some hardcore technical driving's been a lot of fun though it has to be said!

How have you guys found the 4MT running on the S&D? I can't seem to make much headway on the climbs with anything above 4 coaches at the moment, anyone had any more luck?

[SquidvT]

Congrats Dave! I tried the scenario myself and arrived at Pennistone 2 minutes late (Although that was my own fault as I had left the brakes partially on at one point). Its very tight timings and you really have to manage your boiler to get up the long climb. Good to see its doable.

Im thinking that the Dampers might be set only partially on. If you compare the steam generation to the 2MT, it seems a little low at the higher regulator settings. I guess we shall see if the update changes things. Again if it does, hopefully only by a little, it really is fun to to nurse this boiler.

I created a scenario where you drive 4 coaches from Dumfries to Stranraer and its a real struggle, possibly realistically so although there is a discrepancy witht he 2MT (it flys uphill). Its currently on hold until the patch to see if things are tweaked a lttle.

[Kiwisteam]

I think there is a big difference between firing on the 2MT and the 4MT. There former can accelerate with dampers off and the later slows down on a flat IOW!!

[SquidvT]

Well using Dave's Dampers fix I managed to get to Pennistone at 11:30:40 They do make a big difference . Which is more realistic? Im not sure. At least now the 4MT does steam a bit more like a "Pocket Rocket".

[SquidvT]

Ok here's another conundrum for you. I've replaced the engine.bin file to enable working dampers. Works great in the default scenarios. But on going back to test my own, the dampers are still broken. I've tried deleting and replacing the loco in the scenario editor, no dice. I also tried using RWtools to swap it. Interestingly RWtools now says there a 2 identical 4mts, tried selecting both but still no joy. Cleared cache doesn't work either.

[DaveDewhurst]

Have you deleted the erroneous file called "Source.bin". Its in the root diredtory of the 4MT?
After you do, any scenario you have created might whinge becuase the engine no longer exists.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1637197

Dave

[ivorengine]

Many thanks to all who replied on here. I managed two minutes early at Penistone. Erm... after swapping to the dirty black 5. It's not really cheating. The sounds where wonderful.

I will try the kindly suggestions soon.