I have decided to try my hand at a first route build, but need some help and guidance! - and have a whole host of questions…
… some probably prompted by the various tutorial threads on here…
… some definitely at a more elementary level than the tutorials…!
I especially want to anticipate ahead – the area is ideal for extending, so don’t want to be constraint by misinformed assumptions made at the start.
Research
The project is for the closed Pontyclun to Beddau line(s) which are nearby, so easy to take a look at the trackbed, photograph etc.
I need to get a copy of GWR / BR(W) track diagrams for Section 49B, elevation / gradient data and DEM data.
Route building / track laying.
What comes first – placing track, then wrap the terrain?
I was going to base my research on tabulated OS X,Y,Z grid / elevation data for the various inflexion points & features on the route – is that what is referred to as “markers”?
I here discussion of origins / starting points… I intend to reference using OS grid – so my origin isn’t a mathematical 0,0 grid origin. Will I be able to extend, say, if my origin is a branch bay platform and I want to subsequently lay the corresponding main line?
“Track Rules” – mystery to me – other than I gather these need to be specified up front, and maintained consistently – again, looking ahead, if I want to carry on with main line, what do I need to consider in the track rules.
Superelevation – would this be relevant to a branch line?
Can I copy track rules, artefacts, track, scenery from routes that I have purchased
I’m sure that there are loads of things I’m not even sufficiently aware of to ask about, but need to make a start somewhere!
Apologies for the long post, and thanks in anticipation
So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
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Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
Hi rkk,
Congratulations on taking the plunge. It's a steep learning curve but well worth it. Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the area therefore can't help on research but would highly recommend doing it first. Been disused is usually an advantage because most you can literally walk. However it can be harder to find resources.
In terms of what comes first, when it comes to laying track, import the DEM data into your route, and then find somewhere on your route that is not on a man made embankment or valley. Therefore hopefully your first piece of track can be at an accurate height. From there once you have got hold of a gradient profile I would scan it in, and create a excel spreadsheet with the gradients on, then mark out where the gradients change on google earth. With a combination of accurate gradients and DEM data then terrain should work out in the right place.
In terms of co-ordinates have you thought about RWDecal? It produces google earth snapshots that you can put into Trainsim, and lay track on top of that. In terms of track rules it just produces a default for placing, once placed you can edit a fair few things. You can use a track rule from another add on you already own, or create your own new one (which amazingly enough saves you time in the future). In terms of superelevation if your line is relatively low speed then I doubt it would have superelevation (but an expert may correct me!) That been said I would aim to lay your track with easements as this makes the transition between straight and curve smoother.
All scenery items you can use from previous purchases, however! If you plan to release it to other users keep a note of which products you have used!
Hope this helps a little and good luck
Ian
Congratulations on taking the plunge. It's a steep learning curve but well worth it. Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the area therefore can't help on research but would highly recommend doing it first. Been disused is usually an advantage because most you can literally walk. However it can be harder to find resources.
In terms of what comes first, when it comes to laying track, import the DEM data into your route, and then find somewhere on your route that is not on a man made embankment or valley. Therefore hopefully your first piece of track can be at an accurate height. From there once you have got hold of a gradient profile I would scan it in, and create a excel spreadsheet with the gradients on, then mark out where the gradients change on google earth. With a combination of accurate gradients and DEM data then terrain should work out in the right place.
In terms of co-ordinates have you thought about RWDecal? It produces google earth snapshots that you can put into Trainsim, and lay track on top of that. In terms of track rules it just produces a default for placing, once placed you can edit a fair few things. You can use a track rule from another add on you already own, or create your own new one (which amazingly enough saves you time in the future). In terms of superelevation if your line is relatively low speed then I doubt it would have superelevation (but an expert may correct me!) That been said I would aim to lay your track with easements as this makes the transition between straight and curve smoother.
All scenery items you can use from previous purchases, however! If you plan to release it to other users keep a note of which products you have used!
Hope this helps a little and good luck
Ian
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AndiS
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Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
Let me just answer those parts where I know the field - I never built a route myself.
The top reference for signal diagrams seems to be the Signalling Record Society. Their CDs are £24 each, but each CD comprises about 1/10 of the UK so you get more than just a branch line worth of information. Diagrams are top detail, also some local operation rules are included, and some technical details you don't need. However, the diagrams focus on signal placement alone - not track geometry.
For mapping, RW Decal by Jim (nobkins) seems to be the standard tool. It takes you through the process of taking screenshots at Google and placing them as decals on the route so you know where to place the track and buildings etc.
The order of things is to first import DEM data (from SRTM).
Then you place decals. (Not too many of them in one batch because your graphics card may not handle them all and/or RW can become unstable if you overdo this. They are a temporary aid meant to be removed later anyway.)
Then you place the track, taking your additional sources of altitude data (gradient profile or whatever) into account. Matching such data with the terrain can be some fiddling.
Then you do everything else.
Before you lay any piece of track, you need to decide on the track rule. And before you do that, you need to know the maximum speed permitted on the line, maybe a secondary speed limit for freight trains, and the minimum radius of mainline curves.
Then, you create one (or you let me create one for you). I have a systematic treatise on that in the works but it is not fit for publication at this point, and you will not be interested in the finer details anyway. But I strongly suggest everyone thinks hard about track rules because taking something unsuitable from the shelf leads to half of the trouble people experience in track laying.
Superelevation depends on line speed and curve radius. If it is a slow line with wide curves, you can go without. But most branch lines have tight curves and thus the same amount of superelevation as the mainline with its wider curves.
Using superelevation in RW is actually a three-step process. First, you need to enter the required data in the track rule. Then, you need to lay all your curves on the open route using easements. If you find using easements too hard, you can forget about superelevation. Third, if you have mastered easements, you can select pieces of track and click the superelevation check mark for them. You cannot have superelevation at switches, so it only concerns the open route.
When you use anything from some add-on, you don't actually copy that, you put a reference to it in the data defining your route. When you distribute your route, you are not allowed to redistribute these referenced items. So people who download your route will have to buy (or have bought) these add-ons.
It is quite usual for route builders to use items from several add-ons, but be clear about the fact that without those, people will not enjoy your work, so keep the list as short as you can or find reasonable. At the same time, if this is your first project, make sure that it is fun for you or else it will not get finished. Thus, any suboptimal solution for any of the issues raised above is better than frustration of yourself.
The top reference for signal diagrams seems to be the Signalling Record Society. Their CDs are £24 each, but each CD comprises about 1/10 of the UK so you get more than just a branch line worth of information. Diagrams are top detail, also some local operation rules are included, and some technical details you don't need. However, the diagrams focus on signal placement alone - not track geometry.
For mapping, RW Decal by Jim (nobkins) seems to be the standard tool. It takes you through the process of taking screenshots at Google and placing them as decals on the route so you know where to place the track and buildings etc.
The order of things is to first import DEM data (from SRTM).
Then you place decals. (Not too many of them in one batch because your graphics card may not handle them all and/or RW can become unstable if you overdo this. They are a temporary aid meant to be removed later anyway.)
Then you place the track, taking your additional sources of altitude data (gradient profile or whatever) into account. Matching such data with the terrain can be some fiddling.
Then you do everything else.
Before you lay any piece of track, you need to decide on the track rule. And before you do that, you need to know the maximum speed permitted on the line, maybe a secondary speed limit for freight trains, and the minimum radius of mainline curves.
Then, you create one (or you let me create one for you). I have a systematic treatise on that in the works but it is not fit for publication at this point, and you will not be interested in the finer details anyway. But I strongly suggest everyone thinks hard about track rules because taking something unsuitable from the shelf leads to half of the trouble people experience in track laying.
Superelevation depends on line speed and curve radius. If it is a slow line with wide curves, you can go without. But most branch lines have tight curves and thus the same amount of superelevation as the mainline with its wider curves.
Using superelevation in RW is actually a three-step process. First, you need to enter the required data in the track rule. Then, you need to lay all your curves on the open route using easements. If you find using easements too hard, you can forget about superelevation. Third, if you have mastered easements, you can select pieces of track and click the superelevation check mark for them. You cannot have superelevation at switches, so it only concerns the open route.
When you use anything from some add-on, you don't actually copy that, you put a reference to it in the data defining your route. When you distribute your route, you are not allowed to redistribute these referenced items. So people who download your route will have to buy (or have bought) these add-ons.
It is quite usual for route builders to use items from several add-ons, but be clear about the fact that without those, people will not enjoy your work, so keep the list as short as you can or find reasonable. At the same time, if this is your first project, make sure that it is fun for you or else it will not get finished. Thus, any suboptimal solution for any of the issues raised above is better than frustration of yourself.
Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
I can recommend the excellent "guide" written by keithmross : http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 97&start=0
More useful tutorials can be found here : http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=339 (OLDER Versions of RailWorks [1, 2 and 3: Train Simulator 2012] ‹ [RW] Frequently Asked Questions)
Erwin
More useful tutorials can be found here : http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=339 (OLDER Versions of RailWorks [1, 2 and 3: Train Simulator 2012] ‹ [RW] Frequently Asked Questions)
Erwin
Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
Thanks both - all very useful.
AndiS - I'd be interested on your thoughts on track rules based on line speed - even if it's only an estimate of when your "treatise" is likely to be available!
I don't know if track type makes a difference - a strategic review that assessed re-opening indicates some extant sections are 113 lb flat bottom rail on a mix of concrete and wooden sleepers. One area is bullhead rail on wood.
Not sure what the speed limits were / would be if reinstated. The strategic review published a few years ago gives a 30min out and back shuttle requirement - so about 12km (return trip), 4 station stops (each way, 8 in total), 1:40 gradient and reverse curves, a 40 limit seems optimistic!
Radius on the reverse curves measures up at about 400m off OS plan. Curve onto the mainline / Pontyclun bay platform more like 150-170m (again off plan)
AndiS - I'd be interested on your thoughts on track rules based on line speed - even if it's only an estimate of when your "treatise" is likely to be available!
I don't know if track type makes a difference - a strategic review that assessed re-opening indicates some extant sections are 113 lb flat bottom rail on a mix of concrete and wooden sleepers. One area is bullhead rail on wood.
Not sure what the speed limits were / would be if reinstated. The strategic review published a few years ago gives a 30min out and back shuttle requirement - so about 12km (return trip), 4 station stops (each way, 8 in total), 1:40 gradient and reverse curves, a 40 limit seems optimistic!
Radius on the reverse curves measures up at about 400m off OS plan. Curve onto the mainline / Pontyclun bay platform more like 150-170m (again off plan)
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jonathanmlewis
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Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
Importing the terrain is the first step either SRTM or Aster DEM data I'm not entirely sure which is the best quality for the UK however SRTM is probably easier to obtain/import.
Adding decals or creating a marker file in Google earth would be the next step. In more rural areas you can create a series marker file for track roads/rivers and refer to Google Earth while adding scenery however in in urban areas its better use decals.
A track rule needs to decided before adding any track. The maximum speed can be changed later by selecting a section of track however this should contain the default speed for the line. The track rule should also contain the types of track you plan on using.
Playing track with super elevation is relatively simple using easements however you may want to practice this in a test route before placing any track in the real route. Branch lines most likely had some 'degree' of super elevation if the line had tight curves.
Any asset you have on your computer can be used in a route however if you ever distribute the route other users will require the assets. If you ever wanted to create your own assets for the route a copy of 3D Canvas may be come in useful and its relatively easy to pick up for creating simple assets such as station signs for example.
Hope this helps and you will pick up a lot of things as you go along.
Adding decals or creating a marker file in Google earth would be the next step. In more rural areas you can create a series marker file for track roads/rivers and refer to Google Earth while adding scenery however in in urban areas its better use decals.
A track rule needs to decided before adding any track. The maximum speed can be changed later by selecting a section of track however this should contain the default speed for the line. The track rule should also contain the types of track you plan on using.
Playing track with super elevation is relatively simple using easements however you may want to practice this in a test route before placing any track in the real route. Branch lines most likely had some 'degree' of super elevation if the line had tight curves.
Any asset you have on your computer can be used in a route however if you ever distribute the route other users will require the assets. If you ever wanted to create your own assets for the route a copy of 3D Canvas may be come in useful and its relatively easy to pick up for creating simple assets such as station signs for example.
Hope this helps and you will pick up a lot of things as you go along.
Re: So I want to Build a Route – What to do & where to look?
Just found some fab photos on the 28 days later site...
These are for Cwm Coke Works - the last facility served by the branches from Pontyclun
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/ind ... 012-a.html
I had heard that there was abandoned rolling stock and locos in there! Seems like it is true...
And
http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/sh ... QrgpvYgG0c
These are for Cwm Coke Works - the last facility served by the branches from Pontyclun
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/ind ... 012-a.html
I had heard that there was abandoned rolling stock and locos in there! Seems like it is true...
And
http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/sh ... QrgpvYgG0c