Shot in the dark

[scampispeedway]

Hi, doing a clear out of my papers I came across printouts of the 2007/2008 issues of the Trainsim Monthly
done by John Potter.
In the January Issue of 2008 which turned out to be the last he produced, I noticed that Andrew Flusk did
a review of the EuropeanBahn East Coast Express part 2 which I have done, what I didn't notice was there
were two patches for it, one for the missing signals when you joined up Part 1 to Part 2 and the other was
a link to our forum for the WCE and this did have a link to the EuropeanBahn site unfortunately closed to
correct the mispelt station sign at Grantham.
Was there a patch available as I didn't spot it when looking on the site and can it be made available through
UKTrainsim.com along with the other patches for EuropeanBahn Routes.

Thanks
Bob

[j3801]

Hi Bob,

Sorry for not getting you an answer sooner, I have been a bit 'out of it' lately with personal issues.

Nearly all the EB patches are hosted in the Patch EB addon (official) section of the file library.
The main patch that fixes the signal problem, adds interactive sidings at Doncaster and gives you Mk2c and Royal Mail coaches is in the file library:

ECE East Coast Express [1997685 bytes] - ece2_1.2.zip File ID: 24552 Date: 04 Aug 2010 - 771 Downloads

Unfortunately the patch to correct the spelling of Grantham is no longer available.

The texture that you need to modify is ‘eb_ece2_ka_platform_signs.ace’.

It is a simple fix: open up the ace file, move the ‘Gra’ to the right, copy the ‘n’ from Doncaster,
paste the 'n' next to the ‘t’ then put the ‘Gra’ back, select the full ‘Grantham’ and visually centre it to the sign.
I have the fixed texture, however I don’t know if I would be allowed to up load it as a patch.

The other major fault that was never fixed is the 140mph speed limit on Stoke bank.
To fix this you need to modify the Track DataBase and the Track Information Table files. (Hint the capital letters are the file types.)
You just need to do a search for ‘SpeedPostItem’ and look for one with an entry of 140 in the middle of the last line.
I think there were only about 6 or so. Just replace the 140 with 125 and it is all fixed.
Again I have the modified files, however I don’t know if I would be allowed to up load it as a patch.

If you need any help with the EB routes I will try to help as I have all of them.

I hope this helps,

Justin

[NiallGray]

I don't believe the sign was ever a patch, just an ace file, and I do have it sitting in a folder with everything I ever downloaded from the EB site.

[scampispeedway]

Hi Justin and Niall, I did try and open up the .ace file but it was unreadable and so I couldn't change it.
I wasn't sure whether it was a patch or simply a replacement .ace file but now I realise it was the latter,
how do you open the .ace file as I would like to correct this mistake.

Thanks for your replies
Bob

[gswindale]

Hi Bob,

You need a program TGATools to view the .ace files.

It is included within Route Riter, so if you've got that then you should have it installed.

I'm not at my PC at present, so cannot confirm whereabouts it resides.

[PeterPeddlesden]

Niall,

If the .ace file was available from the EB Website as a download, perhaps you could email it to our resident EB man easilyconfused, so that it can be uploaded to the library.
Appreciate your time on this.
Thanks.

[NiallGray]

Niall,

If the .ace file was available from the EB Website as a download, perhaps you could email it to our resident EB man easilyconfused, so that it can be uploaded to the library.
Appreciate your time on this.
Thanks.

File has been emailed to John.

[Easilyconfused]

Niall,

If the .ace file was available from the EB Website as a download, perhaps you could email it to our resident EB man easilyconfused, so that it can be uploaded to the library.
Appreciate your time on this.
Thanks.

File has been emailed to John.

And it has been uploaded for approval tomorrow.

Replacement ACE file to correct spelling of Grantham. [16369 bytes] - eb_ece2_ka_platform_signs.ace File ID: 30380 Date: 13 Jan 2013 - 358 Downloads

[Anonymizeruk]

The other major fault that was never fixed is the 140mph speed limit on Stoke bank.

The 140mph speed limit was fully intended.

During the ECML electrification, the line between Peterborough and the summit of Stoke Bank was upgraded to allow the then recently ordered Class 91 + Mk.IV sets to run at 140mph. Whilst this never happened in regular service, the signalling for 140mph running remains in place today (the flashing green aspect permitting said speed, with regular / solid green enforcing a 125mph top speed).

The development team thought that it was / is a shame the Class 91s have never been allowed to exploit their top speed, with the exception of some trial and demonstration runs. Whilst I can't recall the conversation word-for-word, the rough discussion ran along the lines of 'we can't change the real route, but we can let these locos fully stretch their legs in the world of MSTS'. I certainly pushed for 140mph to be included, and from what I recall, the rest of the team didn't need much convincing (I joined EB shortly after development on ECE1 began, and was told that 140mph had already been discussed, and the feasibility of the flashing green aspect signalling scripts for ECE2 should the product come to fruition).

As a fan of electric traction in general, especially Class 89 and Class 91, I very much enjoyed tearing up a simulated Stoke Bank at 140mph in a 225 set.

[NiallGray]

Hi Gaz,

Good to see you posting in here after a long time.

Although I like accuracy where I can, I did enjoy the chance to do 140mph over that section and glad it was included.

[j3801]

Gaz,

Anonymizeruk wrote:
The 140mph speed limit was fully intended.

During the ECML electrification, the line between Peterborough and the summit of Stoke Bank was upgraded to allow the then recently ordered Class 91 + Mk.IV sets to run at 140mph. Whilst this never happened in regular service, the signalling for 140mph running remains in place today (the flashing green aspect permitting said speed, with regular / solid green enforcing a 125mph top speed).

This I did not know, every review that I had read on the route complained about the 140mph speed limit.

I do apologise for my misunder standing. Having never been out side of Australia, (and therefore never even seen the real ECML, one day I hope I will once I have my pennies saved up)
I usually look to the forums for info on things or do a web crawl for info.

Justin

[Anonymizeruk]

Hi Justin.

One thing I ought to clear up.....

Whilst the signalling for 140mph is indeed still in place, it has not been used for some time. The flashing green aspect only indicates that there is sufficient distance to the train ahead for a service with special clearance to exceed the 125mph limit up to a maximum of 140mph. This clearance was only ever given to test trains, and a handful of demonstration / press services (including that which set the current British Locomotive Speed Record of 162mph, achieved by then 91010 as it propelled a 225 set down Stoke Bank). So, whilst the flashing green can still regularly be seen, as there are no trains with clearance to exceed the 125mph limit, the aspect has become redundant.

An interesting side note - one of the primary reasons given for not exploiting the 140mph capability of the Class 91s was that it was thought too difficult for a driver to distinguish between solid and flashing green lamps when travelling at high speed. During my work on ECE, I met several current and former drivers, who disputed this, believing that such conclusions were over-cautious.

I can't remember how much (if any) information regarding this feature was included with the ECE manual, but as reviews appeared to assume this was a glitch, it seems likely that it was very little. I didn't begin contributing directly to manuals until ECE 3 was released.

Also, my apologies if my post seemed a little on the defensive side - this was not intended! I just wanted to clarify that the 140mph section was always intended to be included, and that there was a genuine reason for doing so.

So, the next time you are at the controls of a simulated 225 set, enjoy the short section of 140mph running!

Cheers

Gaz

P.S - I produced the corrected .ACE file for the misspelled 'Grantham' sign (one of the easier tasks from my MSTS days!). I'll upload it to UKTS if folk might still need it.

[j3801]

Hi Gaz,

No offence taken, I just didn't want to upset anyone.

I have just checked the manuals that I have for the ECE series, there is nothing about the signals/140mph section .

Justin

[michaelhendle]

Hi Justin and Gaz

The latest possible plan for the East Coast is to replace the class 91 loco's with a new Loco class 93 and refurbish the MK4 coaches,I think 1 set has been done as a trial train,this will work out a lot cheaper than buying the complete new trains as originally planned,another case of penny pinching.

There might be 2nd batch of 93's which will be used on the Greater Anglia Norwich-Liverpool St route,the 93's will have a diesel engine which will allow them to travel to the next station in case of power failure.

So maybe the 140 mph will come into use at some time in the future.

Mike

[Anonymizeruk]

Ahh, upon re-reading the entire thread, I hadn't spotted someone already uploading the corrected .ace file.

Hi Gaz,
Good to see you posting in here after a long time.

I'm still about (just!). I can't say as I keep much of an eye on the forums these days, but I often have a look at what is being uploaded to the file library (which is how I ended up at this thread in fact). I rarely fire up any of the sims nowadays, although a couple of recent uploads are tempting me to get MSTS installed again. I do have TS2013, but the combination of perpetual skintness, and the sheer expense to build a good collection of add-ons means it has only ever been run once to confirm the update from 2012 had completed. I fell out with BVE for a while after busting a gut on a project, only to see it come to nothing.

After being unceremoniously and unexpectedly dumped by EB*, I did carry on with some somewhat sporadic work for MSTS, and did a few soundsets for MT. Unfortunately, I have since developed rather severe tinnitus. Trying to loop-tune engine / motor sounds (essential for even half-decent sounds) plays total havoc with it, so I had to call it a day.

Hi Justin and Gaz

The latest possible plan for the East Coast is to replace the class 91 loco's with a new Loco class 93 and refurbish the MK4 coaches.....

So maybe the 140 mph will come into use at some time in the future.

Mike

I've seen a few concept graphics of the Mk.IV rebuild in RAIL, and I'm not really quite sure what to think. I rather like them in their GNER 'Mallard' guise. Although they are getting a little shabby, I still like them. I'm not sure that having 4 classes is necessary - especially in terms of the added number of possible tickets available! I'd imagine the fully reclining seats would do OK on the Aberdeen / Inverness services, but that doesn't apply to the Mk.IV sets.

As for the 140mph - I think it would be worth at least investigating. Granted, it's a short stretch of track in terms of the entire route, but even if it made little difference to overall journey times, I'm sure the train planners could make use of it, with 140mph capable trains occupying this section for a shorter period. I wonder if the relevant parties remember that Mk.IVs were designed for retro-fitting of tilt? (the 91s / DVTs had a 'tilt isolate' switch in the cab too, although I'm not sure if this survived the 91/1 programme). Even better would be for the MML to get the 225 sets once the wires go up, although that is for purely selfish reasons!

Cheers

Gaz

* - yes, I am aware of the reasons EB is no longer around, and I was genuinely sad to hear about it. However, I still believe that I was dumped on from a great height, and see no reason to refer to the end of my EB 'career' (a more suitable word escapes me at present) in any other way but truthful.