Poll: How do you prefer to play RW3? With TSX on or TSX off

[FoggyMorning]

Darpor, 14 fps is not 'absolutely fine'. Believe me, I know. The game literally stutters.

You can call me pathetic if you wish, yet you are the one in danger of making things worse and ultimately getting this topic locked. I said 'some' TSX-ites are being smug. Note that, 'some'.

May I direct you to Code of Conduct 2B as I feel it is something we have BOTH fallen foul of:

The following will not be allowed:

Berating or belittling a previous poster or casting derision on a previous poster's opinion

Now, if you want to play nice, I will apologise to brummie if you will apologise to me.

Best wishes,
Padster

14fps is absolutely fine as far as I am concerned. That is what I am getting as (presumably) a maximum in the Croydon-Clapham area of London to Brighton with TSX off and it still looks absolutely fantastic.

Then again, it may just be that my poor old brain works so slowly that 14fps appears to be at least double that in reality!

[crumplezone]

If you see 14 FPS on the ingame FPS counter it will be running lower, TS2012/railworks FPS counter stops at 14FPS, so if your constantly at 14 FPS on that you are probably alot lower. Anything below 30FPS is considered pretty bad in a games sense as its actually rendering not in real time but slightly delayed, when you start to see 20-25FPS the likely hood of lagging, rubberbanding and other graphically related issues will show more often.

Most games in the past 2years can ultilise high FPS and produce it aswell, in most cases the average FPS is between 40-45fps as a bare minimal, I've got a aging 460GTS 1gig graphics card which doesn't go under 50FPS in titles I own as far back as 4-5years ago unless they require to be XP compatibility mode then they are stuck at 30FPS.

I don't think anyone is bragging in their answers to the poll or their posts here, TS2012 should run on any machine 3-4years old, it doesn't to a certain degree because it does not utilise dual or quad core systems or graphics cards which have been out in the past 3-4 years in a effective and efficient manner, this in turn gets reflected across the board and did at TS2012 launch, I quite frankly find it ludicrious that people have to build a machine around TS2012 when a system which supposedly is to run TS2012 flawless can run the latest titles far better.

To compare, all my quad core 2.5ghz intel system, with a geforce 460GTS 1gig RAM, 8gigs of ram 64bit Win 7 and efficient cooling I get the following FPS in gaming titles:

TS2012: 30-35FPS
World of Tanks: 65-90FPS (Specs req. are under TS2012)
World of Warcraft: 60-85FPS (Its 6years old with specs which are just under TS2012)
Total War Shogun 2: 55-60FPS (Specs req. just over TS2012)
Warhammer 40000 Space Marine: 70-90FPS (Specs req. over TS2012)
Call of Duty Black Ops: 55-70FPS (Specs req. over TS2012)

For my system which is coming on 4-5years old now, there is a considerable difference in FPS results, on both older and newer titles, but points out just how poor TS2012 is FPS wise compared to the other titles. Also I'll point out, before anyone decides to bring it up, TS2012 is being sold as a modern title, e.g. a 2011-2012 title, so comparing it with the modern titles just above should be fine and it doesn't matter if said titles have bigger studios, that is the competition it is up against in a "gaming" market.

Sad fact is, the core program aswell as the graphics engine is based on DX9 technology, which is windows XP era, so arguably it should run off technology around that era aswell as more modern technology flawless, it doesn't so you can make conclusions as you will.

This isn't intended as a rant, but just abit of prespective, people shouldn't be wasting money on large upgrades to their system just to appease TS2012s bad hardware utilisation, when the money spent can and will run games vastly more superior in specifications and graphics, nore should anyone just accept the poor FPS results shown from TS2012, a simulator/game shouldn't require a quad core system with 2.5-3ghz processor, 8-12gig of ram and the cutting edge graphics cards just so it can achieve 30-35fps without any graphics anomolies, quite frankly that is just ludicrious to think, but that is what some people are buying and using just to get that kind of performance.

[Darpor]

I find 14fps to be absolutely fine as well, it certainly doesn't detract from any enjoyment, but it's personal opinion. It's also worth noting that talk of 50fps or higher in other titles is irrelevant as the eye cannot see it, in fact, many titles are capped intentionally at 30fps anyway.

As for the apology Padster, no chance, there is nothing to apologise for. I also still don't believe people are being "smug", regardless of how many posters it alludes to. It's also not the first time that people have been branded that way, simply for having a positive opinion.

[davejc64]

I'm not interested in frame rates, as long as it looks to be running smooth which RW3 does in my case, then that's good enough for me.

[crumplezone]

I find 14fps to be absolutely fine as well, it certainly doesn't detract from any enjoyment, but it's personal opinion. It's also worth noting that talk of 50fps or higher in other titles is irrelevant as the eye cannot see it, in fact, many titles are capped intentionally at 30fps anyway.

As for the apology Padster, no chance, there is nothing to apologise for. I also still don't believe people are being "smug", regardless of how many posters it alludes to. It's also not the first time that people have been branded that way, simply for having a positive opinion.

Talk about higher FPS in other titles isn't irrelevant, while the eye is indeed unable to utilise more than 30FPS(its also dependant on eye colour, male or female and also some gamers can see higher than 30FPS), higher FPS allows for better and smoother transitions for movement and camera rotation and dips in FPS performance, in a nutshell it makes for a better viewing quality and experience. Also, the titles capped at 30FPS are general console titles due to TV hardware, all PC titles unless directly "ported" from console to PC will have no limit on FPS and most titles follow this principle and have for many years.

A higher FPS count in TS2012 translates to better ingame clock ticks, lower fps means it lagged/delayed thus knocking timing and AI movements, it causes rubberbanding and lagged controls response and in general its not a plesant experience to see moving locomotives stutter and jerk around.

As noted it is personal opinion of what is acceptable, but since TS2012 is trying to apply itself to a wider and more gamer audience, those gamers will not find the performance and FPS acceptable, and anyone with a shred of gaming history, tweaking and general game reviewing will tell you this to.

[Padsterdood]

I find 14fps to be absolutely fine as well, it certainly doesn't detract from any enjoyment, but it's personal opinion. It's also worth noting that talk of 50fps or higher in other titles is irrelevant as the eye cannot see it, in fact, many titles are capped intentionally at 30fps anyway.

I stand by my comments about fps. For me, 14 fps is truly dreadful and is the reason I never use RW with TSX on.

As for the apology Padster, no chance, there is nothing to apologise for. I also still don't believe people are being "smug", regardless of how many posters it alludes to. It's also not the first time that people have been branded that way, simply for having a positive opinion.

Fine, then I have nothing to apologise for either. Seeing as other people are now getting involved and risk inflaming the situation I'll pour oil on troubled waters by agreeing to disagree. End of.

Best wishes,
Padster

[tads1970]

people shouldn't be wasting money on large upgrades to their system just to appease TS2012s bad hardware utilisation, when the money spent can and will run games vastly more superior in specifications and graphics, nore should anyone just accept the poor FPS results shown from TS2012, a simulator/game shouldn't require a quad core system with 2.5-3ghz processor, 8-12gig of ram and the cutting edge graphics cards just so it can achieve 30-35fps without any graphics anomolies, quite frankly that is just ludicrious to think, but that is what some people are buying and using just to get that kind of performance.

This sums my situation up nicely,although my CPU is running at 4Ghz and is a quad core.30-35 in built up areas and 50+mid route,which I think is pretty poor considering.I spent hundreds only to get 35fps?,migrated to windows 7 ultimate,but on the flip side its only with RW,all my other simulators run flawless with 32xAA and 16xAF,8x supersampling.It really has spoilt my time with RW-now it's only 10 minutes before I hit the exit button.

Thats life

TSX-on

Daz

[Darpor]

I stand by my comments about fps. For me, 14 fps is truly dreadful and is the reason I never use RW with TSX on.

I think the reason for this is the fps issue mentioned earlier. As it doesn't visually go any lower than 14fps, you may well be experiencing really low rates such as 5fps and that would then cause what you call dreadful. On the other side of the coin, if I do enter a really intensive area and drop as low as 14fps, I may well be still be only experiencing 12-14fps and this still doesn't really show much stutter. It's entirely subjective and will be based on user setup and settings, there isn't really a right or wrong.

I spent hundreds only to get 35fps?

But you cannot physically see anything above that. Although as Crump has alluded to, the more fps you do get, the more headroom you get when it comes to the fps dropping below an acceptable level.

[ashgray]

Fine, then I have nothing to apologise for either. Seeing as other people are now getting involved and risk inflaming the situation I'll pour oil on troubled waters by agreeing to disagree. End of.

Best wishes,
Padster

Actually, it's not "end of" - expect a PM in a few minutes.

Ash

[erikkr]

TSX on , anis x 4 , anti-aliasing none , 1280 x 960

As i use it "for the looks " , thats what gives me the best looks .

[749006]

I'm not interested in frame rates, as long as it looks to be running smooth which RW3 does in my case, then that's good enough for me.

Exactly

[peterfhayes]

Slower machine: TSX off - improves OH wire shimmering, can set video card settings with nvidia Inspector, less Moire patterns on Points (switches), better frame rates overall on all routes, image quality is clear with external video card settings, RailDriver works 100%, less texture lag loading when in-game..
Faster machine: TSX on - better night lighting, rain and visual effects - but see all of the above as artefacts, ie shimmer, stutters, variable frame rates, raildriver inconsistent, etc.
Regards
pH

[Padsterdood]

Thanks for the PM, Ash. It was full of the usual bullying and threatening content I have come to expect from your good self. I shan't be apologising to brummie so please don't bother putting me on moderated posting, just ban me outright.

Why you had to carry this on after things had calmed down is beyond me. I suspect you won't be sending the same threatening PM to Darpor even though he too has contravened the CoC by casting derision on a previous poster's opinion. Please feel free Darp to step in here as I know you will. You just can't help yourself.

What fellow forumites cannot see here is the stifling of debate and criticism being carried out by certain members/moderators of the UKTS forum. That's because it is going on insidiously via PM. I will prove this when Ash gets this post removed. However, I shall be keeping a copy of this post for future reference.

For the record, I think Railworks is an utterly fantastic program and I never use anything else when it comes to trainsimming. RSC are to be congratulated on a superb platform, and of course on some pretty neat add ons too of which I have purchased several over the years. But, the program does have issues, and if people can not address these issues without fear of being shouted down or leaned on then Railworks won't progress, and people are likely to move on to something else if they feel frustrated.

As I am now well and truly toast,
Best wishes,
Padster

[FoggyMorning]

Oh dear, something in the coffee this morning?

The only issue I have with any of the points raised (and it is more general than being merely confined to this thread) is when people present their own opinions as absolute fact.

14fps may be unacceptable for you, I won't argue your opinion on this, but I do take exception to being told that I should find something unacceptable because somebody else says so

Steve

[Darpor]

Hold on a moment Padster.

Last night you said we should "agree to disagree" and that it was the "end of", I then responded to your post about fps, explaining what I thought the issue could be. Now this morning, you issue another post goading and attacking me! You then talk about apologies again, something you alluded to yesterday and expected me to apologise to you first despite taking the first shot?

The issue I had and still have was that you called certain people "smug" for having nothing more than a positive opinion about their TS2012 experience. Others also had the same view about your post, yet you seem to have made it a personal objective to bring attention to my post only. This has nothing to do with anyone having issues with the program or people being shouted down, it's now resorted to a personal vendetta.

Obviously some people are running TS2012 in TSX mode and I imagine the whole point of this thread was to try and gauge the differences people were having. To that extent, it's probably been a useful thread with explanations from users as to why they are using either method. Up until your post, the thread was civil. However, it was you that took the unneccessary shot buy calling people "smug", and it isn't the first time.

Nobody is being smug, nobody is being shouted down or leaned on, people are just posting an opinion about their experience. If anything, it's those who are enjoying their experience that are more likely to get shot down, as has been seen in this thread.

P.S. I would not like to see you get banned, I had actually been enjoying your Tornado shots.