Signalling on Forth Bridge

[ckmemphis]

This thread seems to have mushroomed into quite something else! My particular issue is with the 185 minute scenario. I'm crossing the bridge Northbound at 50mph. There are two very closely spaced signals at the end of the bridge. I do not remember if I was given a yellow caution but the one after that was red, without enough braking distance.

Right! I can confirm this on the 185 min scenario. I was following the Northern Lights train north over the bridge, all lights are green so I stay at line speed (50 over the bridge in my 166). Coming to north end of the bridge I see a two aspect signal showing green. On passing this and then clearing the brick bridge portal, I then see the three aspect signal at the north bridge end showing a red aspect. At 50 it's too late to prevent the SPAD, and I've not seen a yellow signal for a few signals before this. Looking at the view 9, I can just see the Northern Lights northbound train just clearing the block north of the bridge.

So there IS something amiss with the signalling on the bridge which didn't show a yellow before I could see the red.

I surmise that this problem is intermittent, depending on your speed to the bridge. Some are reaching the bridge after the Northern Lights northbound has cleared the whole bridge section and therefore they won't get the red at the north bridge end as the express will have already cleared the next section... They'll probably get a yellow there. Those of us who're that little faster out of Edinburgh will arrive on the northern section of bridge whilst the express is still in the following section and see all greens followed by a red which we can't stop at.

Fixes are:

1. Check the signals over the bridge and fix 'em... (Preferred option)
2. Drive more slowly on the section leading to the bridge and hope that the express has cleared the after-bridge section before you get to the north end of the bridge... (OK)
3. Assume you'll have a red signal as you exit the north end of the bridge (regardless of the greens you get all the way over) and slow down accordingly to avoid a SPAD. (Annoying if you forget or the express has cleared and you approach a yellow (or even green) with the brakes on doing 20 or so.

That's my tuppence-worth. Discuss.

The best is going to be repair the signalling on the bridge. According to the signalling plan from Network Rail, there are only suppose to be one signal on the brigde. There is one 3-aspect on the south-end entry onto the bright, one 2-aspect signal roughly half way along the brigde, and then one 3-aspect signal on the northern-end exit of the brigde. So the second signal on the brigde shouldn't be there.... and I'm not too sure if the 2-aspect signal on the brigde is the correct green/yellow type....

[Oldpufferspotter]

So distant signals are now repeaters, as passengers are now 'customers', passenger trains 'transport solutions', freight trains 'logistic solutions', locomotives - well I can't make up my mind whether they are 'power solutions' or 'traction solutions', what do you think? As for signals, they are probably 'traffic control solutions'!
Or am I simply muddying the waters...
Sorry...
Ted.

[johny]

Ted,

Distants are still distants whether CL or Semaphore where they are used in the traditional manner. A CL Distant has the suffix R (Repeater) on its ident plate where it is repeating the next signal only, but it is still a distant i.e. does not display a red aspect, only green and yellow. The ident plate for both types of CL Distant should display a white pyramid at the top of the plate.

John

[Oldpufferspotter]

Hi Johnny,
Thanks for that reassurance! I am sticking to the traditional way.
I was taking the wee-wee a bit I'm afraid. This modern post privatisation stuff gets a bit too way-out for me!
regards Ted.

[coolhand101]

All of this must of change when they added the triangle for what I can only describe as a true distant on AB lines. Before the white triangle, and in BR days, i've never recalled a distant, colour or semaphore, having a prefix plate, but i do recall a CL repeater having a prefix. Intrested to know the year of this change with the white triangle.

Thanks

[Russardo]

Since this is turning into an interesting discussion on signalling I thought I would ask my own question, which I only just came across the other day. At my local station there is a distant signal / repeater (2 colour aspect green or yellow) which was showing green (i.e. the next signal, which I think is protecting the junction where the line goes down to single track, is showing a proceed aspect). However, when the train passed the distant / repeater it changed to yellow like a "normal" signal would change to red after a train passed. Why is this? Surely the distant / repeater doesn't have its own block and the next signal will still be showing a proceed aspect, so why does it change to yellow? I'm sure I wasn't imagining things!

[coolhand101]

Since this is turning into an interesting discussion on signalling I thought I would ask my own question, which I only just came across the other day. At my local station there is a distant signal / repeater (2 colour aspect green or yellow) which was showing green (i.e. the next signal, which I think is protecting the junction where the line goes down to single track, is showing a proceed aspect). However, when the train passed the distant / repeater it changed to yellow like a "normal" signal would change to red after a train passed. Why is this? Surely the distant / repeater doesn't have its own block and the next signal will still be showing a proceed aspect, so why does it change to yellow? I'm sure I wasn't imagining things!

I have seen the same thing for a banner repeater. Normally, which i have to say is 99.9% of the time, the banner repeater will only go to "on" (black horizontal bar) when the train has actually passed the main signal. At this particular station, the banner repeater went to "On" as soon as the train passed it, while the main signal was green. At first, i thought the driver was going to pass the signal at danger as he pulled away with the BR showing "on". It was only when i looked down the platform, i saw the station signal was green. Ok, the driver will never see the BR "on" while he has stopped his train at the station car marks, but i cannot see any reason for this type of operation.

Thanks