bigvern wrote:Anything that can be done with regard to offering complete packs is therefore a step in the right direction.
That is the only way I will move forward with any freeware now. If I have the opportunity to delve into a greater pool of assets (take SAD's foliage pack for example), I will only choose something that readily has permission to be packaged with the route. Cresston V4 will be done this way, only the WCML route is required and anything else has been built by me specifically for purpose, something like over 200 new assets. The end result will either be a one click .rwp, or handed over to Jim for a one click installer, nothing else has to be done.
Which reminds me, Jim, I am not sure whether I replied to your query, but the man from Del Monte said yes.
Vern, as a fan of your route building over the years, you're one of the best, however, as has just been mentioned, are you building this for your own enjoyment, satisfaction, et al, or, do you want to produce something purely for the community to enjoy, I think these are 2 completely separate issues.
I can only guess that there are quite a few layouts that members of the community have built for themselves already that we'll never see the light of day of, some creators are probably too bashful and would say that they don't consider it good enough for general release, which of course, is their prerogative, if you want to build something, then do it. The only thing to consider if you want to make something for us, is to utilise assets, default, or, payware, that the majority of us already own, so, you know that many of us won't need to obtain lots of stuff to make your route operational, I always find it a great pity that route builders spend so much of their free time doing something for us if half the community give up in searching for missing assets and subsequently don't bother to run the route you've taken weeks/months in building, consequently, our own community package manager ( Mr.Jim Nobbs ) now comes to the rescue.
TrainSimDev.com The community dedicated to those who create content for any Train Simulator. Includes:Free downloads via torrent or browser, forum browsable by all, membership by invitation (any member can invite someone)
Some people seem to be taking the whole RW thing too seriously.
If you really enjoy creating routes then you will create routes.
If you want to abandon creating routes yourself, go ahead, but don't start complaining about the amount of money you are 'having' to spend to buy payware routes (£25 a time!).
And don't complain about the amount of add-ons that are required to run any freeware routes. Those routes are free of charge and you are not obliged to download them. You lose nothing but a little time by giving them a look, or giving them a try.
regards Ted.
Plenty of scope for freeware routes. So many excellent ones around already and lots of lines not covered. Also scope to makeover default lines like the s&D ( like Oxo Padd is getting). Freeware developers out there - we neeed you!!
Vern, i to have enjoyed all the routes you create from MSTS to RW. Lots of people do not have the talents you and other freeware creators have, we can not all afford all these payware addon's so it is important to us that freeware is available.
I for one would like to thank all freeware creaters for giving me hours of pleasure, long may you continue creating.
freeware will always be in demand, no matter how many payware routes are released, because not everyone wants to keep paying out for routes plus not everyone is also interested in what gets released in the payware market.
A good example is steam era routes, there is alot more available in the freeware department than available for payware so naturally going to be more demand for those overall.
Also to me, the notion that payware is the only option to get high quality routes or accuracy isn't correct, in most cases a long developed freeware route will have vastly better accuracy and detail compared to a payware route, the KPRS route, GCR, settle carlise steam era just to name a few are on a high quality standard which would put them above some of the payware routes which have been released.
Commercial routes are also in the restraints business, they end up being a set distance and not including this or that which user A B or C wants nd they have to be completed in a reasonable amount of time. Freeware on the other hand can do all that, then add the rest, plus isn't under any obligation or restraint to be released untill its ready, sure this means freeware routes take longer to produce, but the end result is most long project freeware routes are at a impeccable standard and quality and considerably enjoyable, aswell as to note they normally have a decent quantity of scenarios all themed around the route.
The only thing which may hold back freeware back at this point is ease of installation and getting all required assets. Some of the longer developed freeware routes might include assets which are not in the library anymore or scattered over multiple websites. Full asset packs easy to install include the main route file is a step which I think should be taken, as while yes quality maybe ensured alot of users will end up getting put off by long installation methods.
Ideally, a entire asset pack should be provided with each freeware route and I believe the notion that having one of your assets included in a pack should not devalue your efforts if permission has been sort and asked, I don't think people should just pack together assets and then release a route, but sufficient mentioning in a credits/contributor section included in a readme file with the asset pack should be suffice enough, if a asset creator has a website then the website can also be added.
Beyond that, freeware routes are a community thing, rather than something to make money off as for the most part have good followings and support and get alot of praise at the end, comments and critisism can also be given more freely to freeware authors without the threat of legal action or someone getting overly defensive or being over critised for doing something wrong. In payware, since people have paid money, it grants them a psudo-entitlement to say anything about the product because they offered there money and well it never tends to end well in that regards.
Anyway, as RS.com said, there decisions to make routes and rolling stock will not be influenced by freeware, vise versa should be said about freeware. Freeware authors shouldn't simply give or or not create anything just because there is a commercial version or a commercial version planned, if you want to create something, do it, if you enjoy doing it, keep enjoying it.
At the end of the day, there isn't really any need to be influenced by outside sources, do what you wish and release what you wish, that is what freeware is about, your not obliged or under any contract so you got free reign to create anything your mind and heart desires.
Good evening everyone
One good thing if not the best thing about the freeware packs is everything is included
There is no hunting around for this that and the other in order to use them
Kind regards Stephen
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.
Christopher Hitchens (13th April 1949 - 15th December 2011)
Hi Vern,, I think there is room for both. I am retired, and not enjoying the pension I thought I would get, so freeware is important, one of my favorite lines all time is Granfield Branch by Steve Cunningham, I love the short potter up and down lines. Of course I like WCML & Exeter, Falmouth even HSC. I would LOVE to get Woodhead as I had it on MSTS but (a) I have to draw the purse in some times and (b) at the moment I will not go near the internet and allow my system to get updated by Steam until I see some problems editor (lofts ? ) especially, sorted.
As others have already said, the research, collecting data and seeing your knowledge level rise and rise (I remember my first outing on Railworks,, hated it,,vowed never to use it again) but I did TableTop and am close to finishing Longmoor. love it.
As you say, the quality of Purchased Routes is fantastic, I just wish there were more but more Branch Lines for me please, target price 12.99 max where I can create some interesting scenarios, sit on a platform and watch and listen to the Railways as I remember them and wish sometimes were like it again.
Once I saw Crumplezone's reply when I pressed the button to post mine, I deleted my contribution as he has said everything I was going to. (plus it was put a better way than mine)
Well said that man
(p.s. thanks for the plug Darren)
For disclosure, I am affiliated with a third party developer however, I do not know anything about any future releases unless I'm working on them and even then, I'd be breaking years worth of built up trust to say anything about it
Maybe this is getting a little off topic, but how are the French, Italian and Spanish commercial markets and freeware communities getting on in comparison?
The value of your investments may go up as well as down.
It's all about your enjoyment, not anyone else's. It's your free time (and possibly money on research) that your using. I truly believe that free time is a very precious thing and not enough of it is spent having fun.
Do it because you enjoy it Sir. If you then share your creation with the community as a whole, then thank you, even if I never download your route thank you, because you've just increased my options by one.
As for having to download lots of assets to run a freeware route, yes it can be a pain. But having lots of assets to download from UKTS is not necessarily a bad thing. It encourages a subscription to UKTS, which in turn pays for the upkeep of the site, which means that like minded people (us) have somewhere to go to voice questions like yours and to have it treated seriously.
One area where freeware has made a massive, I repeat massive contribution to the longevity of the sim is in reskins and scenarios. Can you just imagine how empty and dull the game would be without the hundreds and hundreds of reskins, enhancements and scenarios? Has to be said that Jim Nobkins mission to create easy to install freeware packs that utilise these is a fantastic idea and one which hopefully encourages this area of freeware to continue at pace.
Fair to say from the views so far, that there is most definitely a demand for freeware routes amongst the big payware projects. Hopefully not only myself but other route builders thinking along similar lines can take comfort that we're not wasting our time.
