Oovee statement

[Andrew Page]

I have a couple of Oovee's products (but not Hatchett Hill), and I've been very happy with them. The phrase which particularly struck me in the Oovee statement was 'take’s considerable time and money to reinvest on such a dynamic platform' (my emphasis). Ongoing updates and changes to Railworks, however desirable some of those may be, surely make it next to impossible for developers to keep a grip on what is happening, and lead to frustration for the user when developers, for whatever reason, are unable to keep their products updated to match the latest iteration of Railworks. (Yes, I know all about using Railworks offline to prevent updates and keeping backups etc.) I sometimes think with Railworks that getting the simulation to run in a consistent and stable way is like trying to shoot a low flying snipe; i.e. darn near impossible. Heaven knows how I would feel if I were a content creator trying to wrestle with constant changes. No doubt some ire and scorn will be poured upon me for expressing that view, but there it is.

Of course, just my personal take.

Andrew

[transadelaide]

Part of the problem with the dynamic platform is that many users can't tell the difference between an update which fixes something broken and an update which adds new features to a product which was complete prior to those features becoming available. Rather than treating the free addition of new windscreen and lighting effects as free bonuses, people are approaching those updates with an attitude of entitlement that they should save for fixes.

[gypbrc]

I think this has been a long time coming to be honest. It's one thing making some buffers for the HST and a wagon but it's quite another to make a locomotive and a DMU with the most advanced features yet seen in the sim. They take significant amounts of time to do. My view and I'm sure the view of Oovee is that it has been worth it, but it would be interesting to hear their response if they were asked if they would do it again.

In the last year they've had ambitions to build the Great Northern and tram route; update the Class 57 and add variants, and bring out the Scottish based 156 pack. We have instead ended up with Hatchet Hill and their contribution to the Class 150/2 as well as a few other other smaller projects like the Class 455. This is pretty much in line with the rest of the community. We all have grand plans of the routes we're going to build or the stock we're going to create but it's all to easy to become jaded by it all and find interests elsewhere.

[NeutronIC]

I think it works both ways really. If they didn't make changes, the product would be as consistent as we all remember MSTS was and there would never be any need to go back to previous add-ons and spend time updating them. Your install would never be any different except for new add-ons and all would be good.

Except... it would never change, no new features, no fixes for bugs, nothing. As much as many might bemoan that things change and it keeps upsetting the apple cart I think far more are delighted with the new features or whatever fixes have been released.

If you don't want to have any more updates and you want a totally stable system that doesn't move then simply mark yourself offline. You won't be able to get any more DLC but that's kinda ok because the new DLC probably needs new features that you don't want to have, and it would certainly be unreasonable to expect anyone to produce content that works on all the versions of the product that have been released so that no matter where you've hit the "stop" button you're still ok. Of course, probably you'd find yourself getting a more and more limited choice of freeware as it would start depending on newer models and features, and it's not just DLC, it's any add-on from anywhere that's affected. You won't need to verify, because that only seems to be a problem when new items are downloaded via Steam.

This periodic hiccup and upset is the price we pay for continued advancement and progress of a hobby that is now, finally, storming forwards again.

Matt.

[DavidVI]

While Piracy is indeed a problem, all of Oovee's releases have gone through steam and its far harder to pirate the steam products compared to 3rd party as steam does have a somewhat better DRM than 3rd party vendors.

Far harder how? All it takes is (Deleted by moderator - we don't need instructions on how to pirate software, thank you!)

Sad news anyhow. I don't own any Oovee products but may do in future.

[Stone75]

Part of the problem with the dynamic platform is that many users can't tell the difference between an update which fixes something broken and an update which adds new features to a product which was complete prior to those features becoming available. Rather than treating the free addition of new windscreen and lighting effects as free bonuses, people are approaching those updates with an attitude of entitlement that they should save for fixes.

Exactley !! 100% behind that statement. I have the 156 and bought it after the 2012 update knowing it did not have and might not ever have a wet screen. Oovee owe me nothing in my eyes and i'm more than happy running what is one of the most atmospheric DMU rides in RW. I wish Oovee the best in what ever they decide to do and hope they don't be put off developing for RW in the future by the complainers.

steve

[jimmyshand]

I can't understand that outlook, you almost seem overjoyed that it does not feature the latest ts2012 effects??? Oovee and other devs are not charities, you don't have to feel sorry for them, they are companies making money out of selling addons. We are customers so we should be demanding the best and demanding updates, if they don't then that's their lookout but you don't need to praise them for not doing it, that's a bit bizarre!!

[wynnetom440]

Ah dear I too felt this coming..

Looking back, Oovee really have shown us what is capable within RW/TS2012 and for that we should be grateful. I think they've given other companies a bit of a wake up call and consequently have helped to kickstart the market, for example JT's Advanced range. So hopefully its not all doom and gloom!

Good luck in the future Oovee.

[Stone75]

I can't understand that outlook, you almost seem overjoyed that it does not feature the latest ts2012 effects??? Oovee and other devs are not charities, you don't have to feel sorry for them, they are companies making money out of selling addons. We are customers so we should be demanding the best and demanding updates, if they don't then that's their lookout but you don't need to praise them for not doing it, that's a bit bizarre!!

Overjoyed for what it does not have ? I said i'm happy with what i paid for and it still does what it it did when i payed for it. It does it much better than some products that have added raindrops. When you buy something, your not entitled to improvements, but fixes to things that are broken, yes.

Where do i praise for not doing an update ? Because i'm happy with my product ? I'd be well happy if an update came along, but i do not expect it.

Its amazing how you came up with your version of what i said. You don't work for a newspaper do you ?

steve

[gypbrc]

We are customers so we should be demanding the best and demanding updates

Alas lots of people in RW Land seem to be demanding these updates for free which does not drive development.

[styckx]

Peoples definition of what constitutes an `update' vary greatly.

Update for me: The camera stares at the ceiling.. That's a game breaker, and yeah I'd want it fixed

Update not for me: The entire platform move the goalposts 20 miles the other way and I don't have rain and working lights.. Be nice, but not something I entirely care about to a great extent let alone demand to have it implemented.

Anyone who owns an Android has probably seen the ruthless nature of customer demands getting out of hand. I see it all the time.. Developer puts out a .99 cent game.. A few weeks later developer fixes some bugs.. Yet the comments are filled with stuff like "Only BUG fixes? No new levels? Developer is slacking!!! Rating it 1 star until we get new levels!"

[Andrew Page]

This periodic hiccup and upset is the price we pay for continued advancement and progress of a hobby that is now, finally, storming forwards again.

Matt.

Ah, but with respect Matt, there's the rub. Some consider the price worth paying and some don't, and the balance of opinion thereon may be driven by the utility derived from the changes introduced, i.e. to what extent do they lead to real advances as opposed to new issues or problems. From my perspective, I would say that to describe the hobby as 'finally, storming forwards again' is stretching things somewhat. But I've said my piece, and we can agree to disagree as to whether the glass is half-full or half-empty!

Andrew

[gswindale]

I can't understand that outlook, you almost seem overjoyed that it does not feature the latest ts2012 effects??? Oovee and other devs are not charities, you don't have to feel sorry for them, they are companies making money out of selling addons. We are customers so we should be demanding the best and demanding updates, if they don't then that's their lookout but you don't need to praise them for not doing it, that's a bit bizarre!!

But the product was developed and released before the TS2012 extras were even thought of.

By all means provide an upgrade, but don't neccessarily make it free.

An update should fix bugs. An upgrade should add new features.

Updates should be free. Upgrades at the developers discretion.

We seem to have this argument every couple of weeks. You've paid for something. It works, but isn't up to the latest standards. Should I be moaning that Open Office isn't importable into my copy of Office 97? No. That is what the newer versions provide amongst other things as a reason to encourage me to upgrade.

It would be nice, but the pricing structure would need to be reviewed to take into account unforseen dev work to bring in new features.

Sent by Androids

[thetrainfan]

Really, gswindale, maybe paying for a lights fix that even I can do (It's basically copying a few lines of script into a few .bin files!) and changing the material of the windscreens and re-exporting? (Something that could be done within a couple of days).

[transadelaide]

Overjoyed for what it does not have ? I said i'm happy with what i paid for and it still does what it it did when i payed for it. It does it much better than some products that have added raindrops. When you buy something, your not entitled to improvements, but fixes to things that are broken, yes.

Where do i praise for not doing an update ? Because i'm happy with my product ? I'd be well happy if an update came along, but i do not expect it.

Its amazing how you came up with your version of what i said. You don't work for a newspaper do you ?

steve

I think there are two possibilities...

<not very serious >
The first is that he helpfully decided to provide a great steaming heap of an example to illustrate my point about petulant entitlement made upthread.

<even less serious >
The second possibility is that he does work for some so-called "newspaper" like the Sunday Fail (very scratchy emergency toilet paper) we get in Adelaide. That of course means that to draw a conclusion, quotes are loaded into Google for translation from English to Macedonian to Afrikaans to Galician and back to English, followed by a few too many glasses of cheap red. After that process, your post reads like this, which could (remember the few too many glasses of cheap red) be interpreted as being overjoyed that TS2012 features are not present...

Exactley! 25100% behind this claim. I have no update for 2012156 and then and know they can never be a wet screen. Oove anything I should in my eyes and I am more than happy with what is one of the most atmospheric RW DMU. Oove better than I would ever decide to do and hopefully develop in the future by CS opponent.

if they don't then that's their lookout but you don't need to praise them for not doing it, that's a bit bizarre!!

Where do you get this idea that people with opinions different to yours should be censored? Seriously dude, lighten up! Go outside and go for a run, vent some of your pent up frustration on a punching bag (don't hurt your hands), fly a kite or whatever you need to do to unwind a bit. Or at least find some appropriate outlet for exercising your censorial desires, like the closely related areas of becoming a military dictator or running your very own internet forum where you get to set the rules.

Personally, I think the Class 156 is still excellent, even if a wet screen is only experienced by using a spray bottle of screen cleaner at the start of the scenario and not polishing it up for the next hour. I would be happy if they decided to throw in some extra eye candy upgrades on the house, but I would be even happier if they instead used that time to issue necessary fixes for their RW addons and then focused on current and new projects. Spin Tires looks like it has excellent potential as a great casual game with excellent innovation in the terrain damage system, I wish them good luck for bringing it to completion.