A Line in the Sand

[pacerfan]

I have shocked myself with the steam sale recently, since getting railworks back in august I bought a minor amount of dlc. Horseshoe curve of course to make my copy of railworks "standard" with TS2012 and over the months to december the class 156,150,101 and Granfield (I have a thing for multiple units) and GARL too eventually sometime in november and then came the steam sale and 50% voucher earlier where I have ended up buying Portsmouth Direct, E-G the class 67,37,158, Isle of Wight and the 56xx,DTMK2 the G-Trax steamer's and Project Platform and to top It all off the Diesel Shunter pack. doncaster works and hatchet hill. I don't even know why I bought half of this dlc but the same result has happened in that I feel have squandered my hard-earned money on Payware that might see no use at all or only a few hours a year

It is not that I fel the quality is sub-par, the Ovee and Thomson DMU's are the most realistic driving experiance I have had to the extent that with tsx on the rain lashing away I feel like I am an actual driver and the 56xx Is a proper steamer, no trying to move off with the cylinder cocks closed on pain of exsplosive cylinder and the fact the used to ply the ground of the Taff Vale helped too. But the purchase of some of the other addons has made me dissapointed in myself, if not for the fact tallying all the dlc came to £150 and I tried to explain It to myself, higher quality,better sounds, the incredible difficulty in just creating my own locomotives, although my sub-par 3d skills do not help at all on that front. The only consolation I have had is that the 56xx and the 150 are almost a staple of my own scenarious now and that the money I have spent on the "donationware" is going to good causes (Lord knows that the American Preservation scene can get all the help It can get) but other stock such as the 37 I do not use because of the excellent repaints for the default version and the DTMk2 pack now seems superficial with the excellent freeware carriage pack.

I'm rambling here ain't I? Anyway to make my point this is now my line in the sand, no more of my money is going towards payware, for the money I have spent on It I could have bought a dozen of the top games in the charts at the moment during the sale, I cannot justify the expense when there are very good freeware alternatives available and half the day is dedicated to studying for exams anyway leaving little time to actually drive the trains let alone create high quality routes for them and I know more freeware developer's wil eventually come to railworks, It took a few years for the MSTS Community to get kickstarted and provided us with lovely content such as London and Port Stanley and the years to come the freeare community for railworks can only get bigger and I plan on joining It once I have the free time to learn blender, only re-skin work for me at the moment with my Freeware Pack ID but hopefully I have a great scenario challenge 2 to look forward too.

[bigvern]

I kind of raised similar concerns myself the other week. I've bought several items over the last few months which I've been less than impressed with, both from the official DLC and "other" channels. I'm sure the developers are trying their best but almost all just have that niggling little something that isn't quite right. Unfair to mention specific products (and one or two we can't, at least not on here, anyway) but I am going to be much more discerning in 2012. I was originally going to get the NEC in the Xmas sale but even at £12 I see so many flaws still being discussed, I'm not paying and hoping that things get put right. It seems evident to me from the issues with core content (such as the German electric loco which fails to release the brakes fully) that there is a fire and forget mentality which leaves a complete lottery as to whether something gets fixed. Likewise Donner, I know that some of the problems have been fixed such as sloppy scenery placement and failure to put decals at tunnel mouths, but that still leaves the poor track laying and other issues. It should be pulled, reworked completely, then put back on sale at half the full asking price.

Want a good route with spectacular scenery - Albula 2 is in the file library and it's free of charge.

It will be interesting to see where 2012 takes Railworks. Will payware and DLC continue to increase and dominate or will it finally be the year that freeware comes into its own?

[Oldpufferspotter]

I can understand people buying add-ons and then being disappointed with them for some good reason, but I do not understand people buying things that they do not really want, knowing that they will not get much use out of them.
Since Rail Simulator was originally released I have spent just a little over £100 on the game and add-ons, but I bought only those things that I really wanted and knew I would make good use of. The DT Mk1 and Mk2 coaches for instance, at the time really essential to make up a decent 1950s-1960s express.
I was a very late purchaser of the IoW and US add-ons (which I got from JT a long time after RW was launched) because I did not see a use for them in the early days when they were first available. It was later on that I thought of adding a third rail electric section to my fictional route, and which led me to buy the IoW pack.
Last Christmas I failed to reach a 'target' I had set for myself route building, and experienced a definite 'burn out'. I became a bit dejected with it all, and gave up rail simming for a while, but I soon missed doing something with the simulator. After watching some South American train videos I fancied creating a South American route as a complete change (a change is as good as a rest), and that led me to buy the US add-on.
I am still with Rail Simulator, and for various reasons I am still happy with my decision not to go for RW. No matter how cheap the basic RW set up package becomes, I will still not buy it. £2.99? No thanks, I don't want it, it's as simple as that.
If you buy something that you do not really want just because it is 'cheap', then that purchase is no bargain at all. It is just a waste of money.
There really is such a thing as 'Retail Therapy', in other words the need to buy something new to make you feel better. When you are feeling a bit despondent, something new does buck you up (personal experience!).
But if you do buy something just to make yourself feel better, you will soon get used to that new purchase, the interest in it will fade - and you will want something else new to make you feel better again! Resist the temptation. It's a very expensive Therapy!
regards Ted.

[pacerfan]

hence my little bit of a rant at myself above, although reading it now maybe I should have thought out the purchases before getting in the christmas spirit and then browsing round the forum in a state after a whole afternoon of christmas related celebration :oops:still I plan to make good use out of the route's atleast (and their assets) and I have been enjoyably driving half of my purchases. although I did not know that a 158 could systain 140m.p.h

[smarty2]

although I did not know that a 158 could sustain 140m.p.h

How did you manage that fella? Of a cliff? Certainly I have never reached the 100 mark with a scud!

[pacerfan]

The scenario on Hagen-Siegen I just put the thottle to the max and watched as it just kept going faster and faster, Of course I failed the scenario that time as I just watched the scud doing its best TGV impression and I was not going to let a little thing like stopping at the stations ruin It

[Retro]

I have not bought anything in the Sale and do not intend to spend any money until the Woodhead Route is released. My hope is that this will turn out to be one of the best Routes ever. RSC have a lot resting on this Route IMHO and it's success or failure could have a marked effect on the future either way of TS2012. My other concern is not really knowing what has been optimised for TS2012 form all Payware Companies including RSC. We could really do with a list of what has been done and what is to be done and when. One Payware Developer is attempting to do this that I know off and some items are still awaiting optimisation until RSC fix some known problems that where apparently promised.
It would be a little stupid to buy a piece of DLC if it was not on the optimisation list. unless you still have the option of running Railworks 2. Legacy Mode still needs some major work.
I have therefore drawn my line in the Sand until I have this information.
Just my thoughts on the matter that probably does not make a lot of sense except to me.
Kind regards James.

[bigvern]

Last Christmas I failed to reach a 'target' I had set for myself route building, and experienced a definite 'burn out'. I became a bit dejected with it all, and gave up rail simming for a while, but I soon missed doing something with the simulator.

Kind of mirrors my experience, Ted. This year I actually completed three routes - the Zigzag and Blackpool Trams for RW and Raquette for Trainz, a princely total of around 50 miles which is out of all proportion to the amount of time spent in the editors of both sims (my recent attempt to start the Ffestiniog being the latest fallen flag). I can't put my finger quite on why that is - I enjoy building routes but seem to burn out as soon as the track is laid and the first mile or two of scenery placed. That does unfortunately tend to colour my view on other elements of the sim such as buying payware, though maybe there is something to be said for letting someone else do the creating - I could never produce something to the standard of Albula in a hundred years!

I guess the resolution for 2012 is to try and be more focused, play a more active part in ensuring that the freeware output keeps up with the payware stuff, but of course we know what happens to New Year resolutions...

[stephenholmes]

I can understand people buying add-ons and then being disappointed with them for some good reason, but I do not understand people buying things that they do not really want, knowing that they will not get much use out of them.
Since Rail Simulator was originally released I have spent just a little over £100 on the game and add-ons, but I bought only those things that I really wanted and knew I would make good use of. The DT Mk1 and Mk2 coaches for instance, at the time really essential to make up a decent 1950s-1960s express.
I was a very late purchaser of the IoW and US add-ons (which I got from JT a long time after RW was launched) because I did not see a use for them in the early days when they were first available. It was later on that I thought of adding a third rail electric section to my fictional route, and which led me to buy the IoW pack.
Last Christmas I failed to reach a 'target' I had set for myself route building, and experienced a definite 'burn out'. I became a bit dejected with it all, and gave up rail simming for a while, but I soon missed doing something with the simulator. After watching some South American train videos I fancied creating a South American route as a complete change (a change is as good as a rest), and that led me to buy the US add-on.
I am still with Rail Simulator, and for various reasons I am still happy with my decision not to go for RW. No matter how cheap the basic RW set up package becomes, I will still not buy it. £2.99? No thanks, I don't want it, it's as simple as that.
If you buy something that you do not really want just because it is 'cheap', then that purchase is no bargain at all. It is just a waste of money.
There really is such a thing as 'Retail Therapy', in other words the need to buy something new to make you feel better. When you are feeling a bit despondent, something new does buck you up (personal experience!).
But if you do buy something just to make yourself feel better, you will soon get used to that new purchase, the interest in it will fade - and you will want something else new to make you feel better again! Resist the temptation. It's a very expensive Therapy!
regards Ted.

Good afternoon everyone
I totally agree with you Ted
Purchasing something just because it is in a sale is money wasted if you will not actually make use of it
I have plenty of rolling stock some of which I have hardly used
Money is tight at the moment and I have the repairs to my flat to pay for (double glazing external wall recladding etc)
I wish you all a Happy Christmas and I hope 2012 is kind to you
Best wishes Stephen

[Shadders]

I have to admit, it kind of like a women's shoe collection, it just keeps growing

Come to think about it, I reckon I have stock installed that I've never even seen in RW, let alone driven. That does seem a little frivolous!

Best regards,

Shad.

[Kariban]

The scenario on Hagen-Siegen I just put the thottle to the max and watched as it just kept going faster and faster, Of course I failed the scenario that time as I just watched the scud doing its best TGV impression and I was not going to let a little thing like stopping at the stations ruin It

Are you sure it didn't switch to km/h?

I've used everything I've paid for, and I've probably paid full price for about 4 items. Some not very much ( a couple hardly at all, thinking about it ) but it does get used, even if it's just to see how much rebuilding it needs. If it's not good to drive then it's usually ok for AI traffic without any work, and I like busy scenarios. I've fixed my 450 and suddenly driving it is attractive ( if I can ignore the floating track all over PDL, and it's general air of driving a wasteland ), I've done the same for 66s, the 67, 455, making a valiant assault on the US stuff, all sorts. One day I'd really like to be able to just drive something out of the box without some bad setup breaking my suspension of disbelief. I'd hazard a guess that RW3 is still in the broadening market phase with lots of new customers who won't have been burned yet - rather than most of the populace here who've been around for ages - so there's no need yet to really cater to the discerning. One day there will be.

Woodhead will be another route. What's so special about it that it would make or break RW3?

[ROBsLab]

Woodhead will be another route. What's so special about it that it would make or break RW3?

From reading this forum, my opinion is the route is being released at that point where (possibly mostly long time) users feel enough is enough.

Considering the years this simulator has been around for now, Woodhead should theoretically show what the company and simulator can do now. Also, whether they are dedicated enough to release it nearer to a good state than previous releases of routes or trains that may have made users feel they are slacking and not living up to the quote from the CEO which is found on their website.

One day I'd really like to be able to just drive something out of the box without some bad setup breaking my suspension of disbelief.
I'd hazard a guess that RW3 is still in the broadening market phase with lots of new customers who won't have been burned yet - rather than most of the populace here who've been around for ages - so there's no need yet to really cater to the discerning. One day there will be.

Considering this paragraph, I feel you may have answered your own question.
Fair enough, not all the DLC is "Train Simulator 2012 ready" yet. But disregarding this for a moment, if you felt it was rare to come across problems instead of receiving problems from everything you have bought or that you feel problems with releases were fixed within a reasonable time frame, you could feel comfortable with how the company (or companies) is (or are) performing.
You could consider Woodhead that "one day" for a certain amount of users. They may not be comfortable with how Railsimulator.com are performing and may decide to distance themselves from the simulator or proceed with caution on what their future with the simulator will be.

However, I cannot see the company losing out per se, considering the amount of users there are now. Though the community may see some good contributors or regular users distance themselves from the scene or leave. Hopefully not.

ROBsLab .

[pacerfan]

I'm glad I did not pick up some of the dlc I was going to buy (almost whent and bought donner pass because of the hype before the outrage), and with rw tools I have been putting some of the little used rolling stock I have bought to use as ai traffic and doncaster works has really grown on me after playing a few of the scenario's. I bought hatchet hill too and that was a dissapointment for an hour before I swapped the physics of the 04 with the ones from the 03, still not making top speed but not crawling along at 15m.p.h with six catfish behind it. When Woodhead comes out I will probabably buy it now because It gives me assets to create another 1500DC route and hopefully will be a place to run a 506 on it (there better be one in the works) and gives me the 77 and the 08 to complete the shunting collection, leaving only the 01,05 and 06 before every shunter made for BR is in Railworks.

I know this contradicts my line in the sand post opening the thread but i'm in a much better mood now and not under the influence, the sprinters from ovee and thomson have taken countless hours of my life (not that they were not hours well spent in my opininion).and I have finally got the hang of shunting, although I do prefer virtual station pilot duties with the 03 at Newcastle.

[bigvern]

I'm always contradicting myself...

I think the important thing is to take a step back before parting with any money, regardless of whether it's a loco pack or route. PDL I've ran twice in about three months since purchase and the US GP loco's I don't think I've even touched. Stuff like the 150 and 156 are okay, but spend a bit of time on them and you realise the shortcomings of the hydraulic transmission implementation is still there, just buried away. The CIG's, I could probably have lived without.

That will be my approach in 2012, if necessary waiting for a cross section of views from others before jumping in blindly as well as asking myself how many hours of use I'm likely to get out of the product.

[Retro]

Woodhead is important for a variety of reasons. It was always considered to be a special Line because it differed from the norm. The Class 76 was also iconic to many people. The Woodhead Tunnel drove through the Peak District to link Lancashire to Yorkshire which was a major Civil Engineering project. For those who have been through the Tunnel and later through Totley Tunnel there is something very mysterious and thrilling about long Tunnels.
The fact that the MSTS version of this Route became a very popular Route and one of the first questions asked when Rail Simulator was first released was if Steve was going to do a version of The Woodhead Route for it showed it's popularity.
It was certainly one of my favourite Routes in MSTS and there is also a pretty good version of it in Trainz AFAIK. So people probably are eagerly awaiting this Route. I know I am. This is why RSC must get it right. We have all seen the Topics on the latest Routes for TS2012 and are hoping the problems and mistakes on these will not be repeated on the Woodhead Route. It is a complex Route to attempt and has many unique features but the Team working on it are second to none I believe.
We will only know what people think when it is released and I am hoping it will become like the WCML, a must have Route and made to a similar standard that Keith has achieved. We will have to wait and see.
Sorry for this walk down Amnesia Lane. I'll get my Coat.
Kind regards James.