BR Preserved King Loco collection

[VernonDozier]

No aws?
Mine just emergency braked while I was outside the cab.

[Inthernet]

Audio settings

Very strange because I just raced the King against the Tornado to the summit of Cajon Pass from San Bernandino. Tornado whistle is working just fine.

(The Tornado was 6 minutes quicker and the tender of the King became empty as I reached Summit sidings!)

[kevmt]

Thanks again, for everyones great comments

Just took King Edward II on a spin up WCML North to see how fast/powerful it is, with a rake of 12x RW3 default Mk2 carriages. I have lots observations! Please take my following comments as simply observations, not criticism.

1. Edward I and II have different chimneys - the former seems to have the double kychlap. Are the game physics between these two trains still the same (not that it really matters, but just curious).

2. Both train whistles are barely audible.

3. Brake application and release rates are really high - same goes for the Ivatt!

4. I see that you have a different design philosophy to Kuju (MSTS) and RSC, with the use of an obvious cap in steam generation rate (same goes for the Ivatt).

5. Steam usage rate/reverser relationship changes greatly when accelerating past 40mph, resulting in me adding forward reverser to balance usage/production.

6. Steam sounds gets invaded by a "claketty-clack" noise past 60mph. I do not know if this is intentional.

7. Engine seems to have a ton of power at low speed, but hampered by wheelslip. Yet to test this on the 1:40 gradient at Cajun Pass.

8. At above 40mph, the RSC Tornado has far more power.

9. I have not looked at the simulation files. The engine gets to 80mph with ease, but needs some downhill help to achieve a stable speed of approx 90mph max.

10. I drove from Carlisle, 100% throttle most of the way (save for speed limits), making short stops at Lockerbie, Carstairs and Motherwell. My tender ran dry and I parked the train at a siding just outside Motherwell with 0.5 water remaining. The water lasted 90 miles. Any sensible preservationist would refill at Carstairs!

11. A pity about the lack of a proper cab - but I don't spend much time in cab view anyway! The lack of AWS is very welcome!

12. The pack seems to have come with A TON of extra assets! Mk1 and Mk2 carriages of different colours and lots of freight cars. They seem to come with the FP prefix. Thanks for all that - I hope to finally hook up the Tornado with non-glitching Mk1 carriages!

Edit: 13. How on earth did I forget that the sounds below 50mph is absolutely jaw-dropping! I have no idea how a real King sounds like but the sounds in this packinge is very convincing and immersive.
All in all, this train is a looker! She is also a great joy to drive and I thoroughly enjoyed putting her through the paces.

But otherwise it was ok!!!

I can't really answer physics or sound questions as I am just a mere model maker and rely on other much greater experts then myself to help me in these area's.

A couple of things I can answer is that I realise the brake application is a bit fierce and that will be addressed in future patch, It does seem that the speed of application depends on how powerful your computer is, so some will see it faster then others.

The train whistles are very audible on my setup.

I couldn't say i noticed anything untowards with the sound of the loco at high speed.

I have included no extra assets in my upload. I've just checked the file to make sure.

I'll soon be releasing a patch to allow the use of the RSC King or Hall class cab.


On another topic, I have had one report of the loco not actually appearing in the game. The tender shows but not the loco. Has anyone else experienced this?

Cheers,

Kevin

[SquidvT]

Kev,

I just took the KGV out for a test run (substituted with the RSC King in the Return of the King Scenario).

WOW!

The model is sublime, in fact I cant decide which I prefer yours or RSC's. Yours seems more kinglike, i think its the rivets, they seem to be a bit bigger on your model and give that GWR feel to it.
The sounds are simply breathtaking. Ive watched preview vids of course but nothing prepared me for just how good they are in the game. At all speeds and settings it was music to my ears and really added to the sense of power and speed. The whistles work fine on my system, quite loud enough thanks! A nice touch with the two types.
If anyone hasnt yet try the "B" whistle in the 4 veiw its awesome.

Physics wise I couldnt really comment, as I havent driven one, although I am glad the brakes are going to be toned down a bit. Are their any plans to incorperate a GWR type braking system there?

Once the RSC King Cab is aliased I think you get the crown. Even without the cab this is a lot better than quite a bit of payware out there.

Thanks again to all involved, what a wonderful addon!

PS

How would I go about transfering the sounds of this King to the RSC one?

[Kariban]

I have looked at the blueprints, I can comment on a couple of those:

* Not really sure why it appears not to have top-end power, because the artificial cap is at 110mph and it has nearly double the maximum power setting of the real thing ( which isn't the full story as far as blueprints go, there are other areas that might limit power )

* All RSC engines increase steam production a bit funnily above around 40mph, I think it's partly something to do with the proportions of some of the other blueprint settings in the defaults everyone uses as a base, partly the fire temperature building up ( that's probably quite significant ) and partly just the way it is.

* I think there's considerably more steam production and coal use than there ought to be; it shouldn't actually reach the artifical limit - and it shouldn't blow off all the time. There is a dyna run of a King around ( Stuart, where are you ) with reverser settings at speeds, I think we're about 10% too high atm. Perhaps the fire is just too good. The default fire is too small which doesn't help firing it much - I have an in-cab run from a King where they're talking about a ton and a half of fire, so that's about 3300lbs

* from a 40mph run through Taunton I entered Whiteball tunnel - which is at the top of a couple of miles of 1:90 - at 60mph hauling 15 Mk1s - I bet the GWR wished they did that! On the run down the other side to Exeter I think it topped out at 92; I'm not incredibly sure why it won't go faster, because I'd even reduced the drag a bit by that point. MaxSpeed won't start having any effect until 100mph.

Water consumption seemed ok, obviously if it's steaming a bit much then it's going to use a bit much water. Reducing the steam production will probably fix most of the other issues, actually.

I have a blueprint section for GW-type feathering safety valves I can donate if you want - it involves 27 seperate entries, so any sound is going to want to be triggered off pressure.

I'm having trouble with a lot of sounds now I've turned Alchemy back on - the King whistles are pretty quiet, but I'm getting quiet audio from quite a few varied engines. Stock doesn't seem to be having problems. The King chuffs are magic until the high-speed one dies!

[crumplezone]

Just took King Edward II on a spin up WCML North to see how fast/powerful it is, with a rake of 12x RW3 default Mk2 carriages. I have lots observations! Please take my following comments as simply observations, not criticism.

1. Edward I and II have different chimneys - the former seems to have the double kychlap. Are the game physics between these two trains still the same (not that it really matters, but just curious).

2. Both train whistles are barely audible.

3. Brake application and release rates are really high - same goes for the Ivatt!

4. I see that you have a different design philosophy to Kuju (MSTS) and RSC, with the use of an obvious cap in steam generation rate (same goes for the Ivatt).

5. Steam usage rate/reverser relationship changes greatly when accelerating past 40mph, resulting in me adding forward reverser to balance usage/production.

6. Steam sounds gets invaded by a "claketty-clack" noise past 60mph. I do not know if this is intentional.

7. Engine seems to have a ton of power at low speed, but hampered by wheelslip. Yet to test this on the 1:40 gradient at Cajun Pass.

8. At above 40mph, the RSC Tornado has far more power.

9. I have not looked at the simulation files. The engine gets to 80mph with ease, but needs some downhill help to achieve a stable speed of approx 90mph max.

10. I drove from Carlisle, 100% throttle most of the way (save for speed limits), making short stops at Lockerbie, Carstairs and Motherwell. My tender ran dry and I parked the train at a siding just outside Motherwell with 0.5 water remaining. The water lasted 90 miles. Any sensible preservationist would refill at Carstairs!

11. A pity about the lack of a proper cab - but I don't spend much time in cab view anyway! The lack of AWS is very welcome!

12. The pack seems to have come with A TON of extra assets! Mk1 and Mk2 carriages of different colours and lots of freight cars. They seem to come with the FP prefix. Thanks for all that - I hope to finally hook up the Tornado with non-glitching Mk1 carriages!

Edit: 13. How on earth did I forget that the sounds below 50mph is absolutely jaw-dropping! I have no idea how a real King sounds like but the sounds in this packinge is very convincing and immersive.
All in all, this train is a looker! She is also a great joy to drive and I thoroughly enjoyed putting her through the paces.

1. King Ed 1 and 2 are different Kings and one has single chim and one has double chim, Kevs made them accurate, physics wise all 3 borrow the same files, I think there is suitable difference in soundset between single and double chim, but that might be my ears.

2. I have no problem with the sound, you may need to check your volume and soundcard settings.

6. not really noticed a problem in regards to that.

7. BR Kings are known for there power and well I've loaded it up with the RS.com King's heavier GWR coaches, 11 of them, not really noticing wheelslip or power issues it seems about right for a BR refitted King.

8. If one whats to compare performances, then yes tornado probably has abit more powerful in modern era, but that is simply because its a new build, one has to remember the Kings currently in preservation are 50-60+ years old and while powerful locomotive are not going to be equal terms with a steam engine built from scratch, and well to be honest Tornado has a firecracker lit up its funnel anyway and has always in my opinion felt overly fast.

9. Considering they didn't really get above 80mph on mainline and today they are not allowed to go 75mph I don't think there is to much issue in it being faster than that, acceleration wise its on similar terms with RS.com's King, they Kings generally worked on 100% reg with minor reverser setting changes and had heaps of power to be used up when they were BR Kings.

10. I'll agree the water comsumption may require some adjustment, I've taken it over settle and carlisle and it is using a fair bit of water, I'd done from the south to Dent and had consumed around 40% of the tender's water supply at that point lastnight.

12. FP prefix items are Freeware pack items, it doesn't really have anything to do with Kevs Kings.


I have been having plenty of fun with the King and it feels pretty much like one and looks lovely, on further playing I have noticed the inside motion moving under the boiler which I failed to notice the first time so a very nice touch there Kev. I look forward the the cab aliasing patch once you get it out, its a really enjoyable kettle to ride, tackling the S&C with a 11 coach load is both challenging and rewarding and I can't express enough just how much a good sounding soundset brings to life a model, your modelling has always been outstanding but having other community members help and get soundset onto your creations.

So thanks once again, both for this and all your other releases, glad to see TS2012 got the spark going with you again, us kettlers would be sorely be left for choice without your efforts.

[emrhd01]

On another topic, I have had one report of the loco not actually appearing in the game. The tender shows but not the loco. Has anyone else experienced this?

Cheers,

Kevin

Hi Kev,

I (as many will know due to forum Postings) have been suffering from the "disappearing" Loco syndrome with Steam loco's when the sounds have been modified/improved. I can happily report that I have no problem at all with your King or any of the Freeware models that have had sound mods, I have only been experiencing the problem with RSC produced Loco's

Hope that helps.

[stuart666]

I have looked at the blueprints, I can comment on a couple of those:

* Not really sure why it appears not to have top-end power, because the artificial cap is at 110mph and it has nearly double the maximum power setting of the real thing ( which isn't the full story as far as blueprints go, there are other areas that might limit power )

* All RSC engines increase steam production a bit funnily above around 40mph, I think it's partly something to do with the proportions of some of the other blueprint settings in the defaults everyone uses as a base, partly the fire temperature building up ( that's probably quite significant ) and partly just the way it is.

* I think there's considerably more steam production and coal use than there ought to be; it shouldn't actually reach the artifical limit - and it shouldn't blow off all the time. There is a dyna run of a King around ( Stuart, where are you ) with reverser settings at speeds, I think we're about 10% too high atm. Perhaps the fire is just too good. The default fire is too small which doesn't help firing it much - I have an in-cab run from a King where they're talking about a ton and a half of fire, so that's about 3300lbs

* from a 40mph run through Taunton I entered Whiteball tunnel - which is at the top of a couple of miles of 1:90 - at 60mph hauling 15 Mk1s - I bet the GWR wished they did that! On the run down the other side to Exeter I think it topped out at 92; I'm not incredibly sure why it won't go faster, because I'd even reduced the drag a bit by that point. MaxSpeed won't start having any effect until 100mph.

Water consumption seemed ok, obviously if it's steaming a bit much then it's going to use a bit much water. Reducing the steam production will probably fix most of the other issues, actually.

I have a blueprint section for GW-type feathering safety valves I can donate if you want - it involves 27 seperate entries, so any sound is going to want to be triggered off pressure.

I'm having trouble with a lot of sounds now I've turned Alchemy back on - the King whistles are pretty quiet, but I'm getting quiet audio from quite a few varied engines. Stock doesn't seem to be having problems. The King chuffs are magic until the high-speed one dies!

Ive yet to try the locomotive yet (I keep missing the download slot!) so I cant comment on what I think of it. I will say if the author want a copy of the data Im happy to pass on a scan to them from the OS Nock book on Kings, which has data supplied by BR on a 1953 single chimney drafting test, which is the dynamic data Simon refers to, if he does not have it already that is. There are also listings in there of typical runs on the Cornish Riviera express, along with milepost speeds and reverser settings. That gave me the conclusion that RSC were actually quite close to the money (albeit with slightly higher reverser settings) most of the higher speeds kings were clocked with seem to have had banks close at hand to get the speed up. Postwar ones seem to have been able to make longer sustained effort, but thats mainly down to higher boiler output than any mechanical changes. The real problem being is that Railworks locomotives cant really simulate the fireman tiring, which is what I think mainly decides maximum output.

I think perhaps altering boiler volume tends to help water consumption. Larger the volume, the lower the consumption I think. Adjusting boiler efficiency may help too.

As for the carriages, I can say the Centenary stock is significantly draggier than the BRmk1s, at high speeds it means a difference of over 10mph. Cannot comment Simon on your test, other than to say I suspect reducing drag of BRMk1s may help. Am I right in thinking weight of stock is not included, its reflected in drag coefficient and rolling friction?

As I say, ive not tried it, but if its anything like Kevs other King its on my download list and Im sure it will be superb.

[Inthernet]

Ohh, I seem to have opened a huge can of worms! I thank the makers of the addon to have taken my little essay in good nature. It's always nice to know about the real engines and a surprise the Kings were not taken over 80mph on Brunel's flat railway! As for the wheelslip, it occurred when I was hauling 12x Mk2s at 75% regulator, accelerating between 10-20mph in dry, flat conditions. I wonder if the physics represents a "worn out" King in preservation or a still powerful King in service in the 50s?

This King does 24mph up a 2.1% (or was it 2.3%? The Northern rail of Cajun Pass) hauling 10x Eurofirma cars. The long, American routes are a nice challenge and these kinds of performance is always welcome after spending hours of my life driving the anaemic Flying Scotsman on MSTS.

As for the sound, I have neither EAX nor Software mixing ticked as I have no idea what they actually mean!

No disappearing loco syndrome for me.

[Kariban]

Weight of stock is most definitely included on hills Stuart! but I think mostly the fire is burning too fast which makes steam too fast ( which is leading to all the blowing off ), is consuming water too fast so people are running out, and I noticed the fireman is being rather overworked also. Acceleration is quite brisk, but I think it's ok - perhaps the superheater needs messing with, it does affect the power output; I can't really comment on that given I've already poked at mine! I do know what a total pain setting boilers up is, it took me a month just to modify a Pannier into something that you had to pay attention to...

Wheelslip is wildly variable; if you'd started the scenario light engine and coupled up, you wouldn't have slipped at all even with the same load.

Anyway don't let any of that detract from the sight & sound of the beasties, just lovely.

[stuart666]

Weight of stock is most definitely included on hills Stuart! but I think mostly the fire is burning too fast which makes steam too fast ( which is leading to all the blowing off ), is consuming water too fast so people are running out, and I noticed the fireman is being rather overworked also. Acceleration is quite brisk, but I think it's ok - perhaps the superheater needs messing with, it does affect the power output; I can't really comment on that given I've already poked at mine! I do know what a total pain setting boilers up is, it took me a month just to modify a Pannier into something that you had to pay attention to...

Wheelslip is wildly variable; if you'd started the scenario light engine and coupled up, you wouldn't have slipped at all even with the same load.

Anyway don't let any of that detract from the sight & sound of the beasties, just lovely.

Ok, I just couldnt find the section listing it in the BR or CS blueprints. Ill have another look and see if there is one.

Best way to regulate how quickly steam is made is via boiler efficiency, or at least it was with small boilers. Larger ones in theory should be slower reacting, which is another good reason to try and downgrade them a tad. Admittedly ive not set up anything the size of this, I like to stay with the dinky ones like Swindon No2s.

Bear in mind the superheater in the BR Kings was pretty good, comparable to other regions, and its something even the GWR were quick to jump on postwar under Hawksworth. As I say ive not tried it yet, but I wouldnt start with setting the boiler up by reducing that. It probably was good.

As for the RSC King, bear in mind that was a prewar one. Sustained Steam output is something like 10000lbs per hour less than the postwar one, which mean the fireman had to work harder to get the same power output. Ive looked at data on Prewar Kings, and whilst they may have been able to go above 80 with large consists, it doesnt appear that it was sustained for very long. For example I found an account in the Nock book relating King George V hauling 14 carriages out of Paddington for something like 479-510 tons. It was able to top 73mph by Southall, and not able to touch it again still Pewsey about 60 miles away, which had a significant down gradient. It WAS able to top 82 later on, but again this was a down gradient and was not sustained. It wasnt able to go that fast again despite dropping 2 slip coaches.

One can make the argument thats because there was no requirement, and fair enough, probably that is the case. But if it was easy to sustain, like as not the GWR would have reduced the schedule, as BR did postwar when they were redraughted. Kings were excellent locomotives, but not exactly comparable to Tornado.

Its worth pointing out that even when BR redraughted them, the maximum power output trial on the Badminton line with 22 carriages apparently had 2 stokers. Which suggests that some means of modelling the stoker getting tired may be the only way you will get a full reflection on how steam locomotives behaved. Im not sure any really model this at present, and its an important consideration.

[Inthernet]

Lots of interesting stuff propping up - makes me giddy for the next version of the King. Afterall, this one is a beta right?

About my water consumption, I'm constantly producing the maximum 35000 because I was using 35000, absolutely hammering the King up WCML and Cajon Pass! It runs dry in around 1 hour and 10 minutes!

[darkdj]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hflql5ao0lc

Hopefully, Kevin and Matt will enjoy!

[Otterbear2]

Thank you Kevin, for trying to help me with this Invisible train issue.

I'm not convinced that it is the fault of your trains, as it is obvious that others have no problems.
If any can shed some light on this invisible train issue, I would very appreciative.

For those who don't know my situation:

I have re-validated my files through steam and made sure they were all "Up to date".
I re-downloaded the file from the UKTrainsim library.
I have UN-installed and Re-installed the package.
I have made sure that the proper development folder is selected. (They all are.) (I have tried with only Kuju and Kingstrains selected, but get the same result.)
Trains are invisible.
Sometimes I can see them in the scenario editor, but they refuse to show in the actually scenario.
After re-installing and validating my files, they are completely invisible - even in the editor.
I'm at a complete loss.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave

[Kariban]

There's two possible causes for invisible stock:

* The blueprint can't find the shape file
* One of the child objects in the blueprint can't find some important file - "Sometimes I can see them in the scenario editor, but they refuse to show in the actually scenario. - this would lead me to suspect this is the problem. Unfortunately diagnosing those is hard enough when they're on your PC in front of you!