EB East Coast Express Part 5,6 & 7 to Edinburgh

[coolhand101]

I suppose the product is in that price range due to there maybe being a small team at EB continuing MSTS products when back in the day, they had a larger team. Or maybe the response to go ahead with this product was average. I'm only assuming this so i could be totally wrong. It seems that EB have always taking a bashing of some sorts but their hanging on to MSTS when a few commercial vendors have pulled the plug. It is great news that the east coast is being extended and you can drive from kings cross to newcastle complete, which i believe this will be the only product to do that in any train sim ATM. I am fortunate that the price range is in my budget zone but i can sympathize for those on a tight budget as most MSTS commercial routes range between £15 and £20. Looking forward to future screenshots on this product.

Thanks

[gswindale]

I still fail to see £29.50 is that high, MSTS begin life back in 2001 when the retail price was £24.99 and if you applied just the basis inflation form way back then you will be paying approx 5% per annum the price to day would in be in excess of £40.00.

Ken,

I don't think that way of looking at the price is fully justified.
Take Windows. Back in 2001/2002 when XP was released; the upgrade cost £80 (or thereabouts) for the Home edition. Having just popped onto Amazon; the upgrade price for W7 Home Premium is £79.95.
Similarly; in 1998 a hard-back Terry Pratchett book cost £16.99. Today they cost £18.99. (an increase of 0.9% per annum)
Many computing magazines that I purchased back in the mid-late 90s were £5 - today they are £6.50 tops.

[EuropeanLoco]

Geoffrey,

Again good points, but the raw truth is we did not make anything like the basis rate of pay back then, and today you can see by some comments on this thread there are many fewer who are still using MSTS. Those who are offering product at the levels you speak, are I suspect, doing much of what they do as a hobby, that pay a few shilling. Which does not fill me with confidence, so If I am pricing EB of the market, we need to reach a certain level of return, and to achieve that and with interest now ebbing away, each copy need to be a lot greater, to make it worth our while.

I sorry, but this is all about the selling price - crude maybe, but a fact. The membership list is not large, but it is healthy, and sadly few if any are UKTS forum members, and from your comments will not include you. Those who are on the list have committed to support us up front and receive FREE content on a monthly basis, plus all mainline product at 50 % of that of the main shopping cart. They all seem to think it a good deal, and more to the point it helps us

Ken A

[aniceguy]

I would be interested in this.

However I have some concerns and questions:

Question first. With me having Parts 1 to 3 (Leeds Loop), I am not interested in owning Part 4 (Hetford Loop); but would love to go all the way to Edinburgh from Leeds. Would this be feasible or would I need to purchase Part 4 as well in order for this to happen? I already support the ECE products myself as I have lots of planned Activities to complete (but they will take time - something I don't have a lot at the moment). See my web site for details (click signature image).

Concern is the price. I like the idea of having a discounted price, but after already purchasing products from EB; I'm unsure if I would benefit from a membership discount. I support EB as I own 9 products bought when they first came out which cost me a fair amount. If they are (as in each Part), more than £30 each then I cannot afford to commit to that sort of price personally. I would rather buy them as a pack together at a reduced price.

Another question; how much is the membership price and how long does it last for? I have never heard of this but would have been interested in it years ago!

[carlwestwood]

I would be interested in this.

However I have some concerns and questions:

Question first. With me having Parts 1 to 3 (Leeds Loop), I am not interested in owning Part 4 (Hetford Loop); but would love to go all the way to Edinburgh from Leeds. Would this be feasible or would I need to purchase Part 4 as well in order for this to happen? I already support the ECE products myself as I have lots of planned Activities to complete (but they will take time - something I don't have a lot at the moment). See my web site for details (click signature image).

I dont see why not having part 4 would affect anything. With No.4 being the Hertford Loop it doesnt alter anything up at the york end. You should (although i'll stand corrected if im wrong) have no problems installing future extensions with just 1,2 &3

Concern is the price. I like the idea of having a discounted price, but after already purchasing products from EB; I'm unsure if I would benefit from a membership discount. I support EB as I own 9 products bought when they first came out which cost me a fair amount. If they are (as in each Part), more than £30 each then I cannot afford to commit to that sort of price personally. I would rather buy them as a pack together at a reduced price.

Another question; how much is the membership price and how long does it last for? I have never heard of this but would have been interested in it years ago!

Full details on the membership are here
http://www.europeanbahn.co.uk/MembersMain.htm

[alien8980]

I think some of you are not looking at the bigger picture here, you are just looking at the “£29.50 for each add on”.

So why not became a member and show your support for EB's products then?

If you were to add up the membership fee of £12.50, plus the three East Coast add ons at a 50% discount for being a member (for each add on, that would cost you £14.75) it would come to £56.75, divide that sum by the three add ons only, you would still end up paying approx £18.57 for each of the three add ons anyway.

Even if you were only interested in one of the add ons, being a member, would still cost you £27.05 in total, plus you would get 1 to 2 free activities a month for past add ons, and any detailed buildings, new rolling stock skins etc for free too, in which EB would normally charge you for.

I don't think you can price a MSTS product by yearly inflation either, you would normally price a MSTS product by how many is actually made. For example when CD's first came out, they would of cost you about £20 to £30, because not many people had a CD player in them days, and vinyl was much cheaper (say £7.99), nowadays things have turned the other way around. So in fact the less people want a product, the more it cost's to make, the more people buy a product, the cheaper it is to make, which will reflect in the pricing.

So if EB were to drop they're pricing for each add on to.... (let's say £20 - £25 for example), plus you were to became a member, then each add on would only cost you £10 - £12.50, sorry that's not realistic, and neither would it be fair to everyone who is involved making each product for only a limited number of people.

[gswindale]

I think some of you are not looking at the bigger picture here, you are just looking at the “£29.50 for each add on”.

So why not became a member and show your support for EB's products then?

If I was convinced of their seriousness to complete the routes then I would consider it; but given the history of things being announced, started & then cancelled (Caterham Branch anyone?); then I'm not going to fork out in advance on the off-chance that the products may appear.

If you were to add up the membership fee of £12.50, plus the three East Coast add ons at a 50% discount for being a member (for each add on, that would cost you £14.75) it would come to £56.75, divide that sum by the three add ons only, you would still end up paying approx £18.57 for each of the three add ons anyway.

Correction that's 3*£12.50 plus 3* £14.75 which amounts to £81.75 (remember it's an annual membership fee). Thus becoming £27.25 for the three add-ons.

Even if you were only interested in one of the add ons, being a member, would still cost you £27.05 in total, plus you would get 1 to 2 free activities a month for past add ons, and any detailed buildings, new rolling stock skins etc for free too, in which EB would normally charge you for.

Some valid points there; although EB have already made a decision that building upgrades are FOC - see here for proof of that. Same applies for any reskins they've done (here).

I don't think you can price a MSTS product by yearly inflation either, you would normally price a MSTS product by how many is actually made. For example when CD's first came out, they would of cost you about £20 to £30, because not many people had a CD player in them days, and vinyl was much cheaper (say £7.99), nowadays things have turned the other way around. So in fact the less people want a product, the more it cost's to make, the more people buy a product, the cheaper it is to make, which will reflect in the pricing.

That is true; however I as a consumer have a choice between purchasing 2 routes I'm interested in - one costs £20 and one costs £30. Which do I go for?

So if EB were to drop they're pricing for each add on to.... (let's say £20 - £25 for example), plus you were to became a member, then each add on would only cost you £10 - £12.50, sorry that's not realistic, and neither would it be fair to everyone who is involved making each product for only a limited number of people.

True - however I have been involved in the creation of a couple of commercial routes; and have to say that as far as I'm concerned getting any sort of return is good for me. It's not like it's their main day job.

At the moment; I'm not holding my breath on these add-ons being completed - if I was to see more signs of productivity then I would be more inclined to sign up. At the moment; history is putting me off more than anything.

[carlwestwood]

[I dont see why not having part 4 would affect anything. With No.4 being the Hertford Loop it doesnt alter anything up at the york end. You should (although i'll stand corrected if im wrong) have no problems installing future extensions with just 1,2 &3

Ken has informed me that all 4 are needed.

If I was convinced of their seriousness to complete the routes then I would consider it; but given the history of things being announced, started & then cancelled (Caterham Branch anyone?); then I'm not going to fork out in advance on the off-chance that the products may appear.

Caterham branch wasn'nt completed because an unfixable database error, if i remember correctly. It was announced. Not like it was just abandoned.

Some valid points there; although EB have already made a decision that building upgrades are FOC - see here for proof of that. Same applies for any reskins they've done (here).

Those service patches have nothing todo with the Membership offered.

At the moment; I'm not holding my breath on these add-ons being completed - if I was to see more signs of productivity then I would be more inclined to sign up. At the moment; history is putting me off more than anything.

I'm still waiting for Making Tracks' Class 170 Pack which was announced how many years ago?

[Esurient]

EB need to drop MSTS and come over to RW! That'd be a great addition to the list of third party content creators.

[tubemad]

Carl, I think Gswindale means he won't sign up to pay until something is created. MT's is a bit different as you don't pay a membership anyway...am I missing something?

I believe the 170 will be out, they made the effort with their model and included it in GE2, so I suspect it will be out in due course...but I believe it is a hobby small business and not a full time job (probably explains value prices)

[bonan]

EB need to drop MSTS and come over to RW! That'd be a great addition to the list of third party content creators.

No, they don´t! It´s good that someone is still developing quality payware routes for MSTS!

[aj52mdy]

EB need to drop MSTS and come over to RW! That'd be a great addition to the list of third party content creators.

No, they don´t! It´s good that someone is still developing quality payware routes for MSTS!

I totally agree with Bonan!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Andy

[michaelhendle]

I also agree the last thing we need is for EB to go over to Railworks,especialy as all has gone quiate on the MT side of things since GE2 came out.
I have a low end computer and EB's routes have always worked on it with no problem,Railworks just gives up the ghost on it,most addon routes give me a SBHH message,the only advice was more or less get a new computer.

So I will have to stay with MSTS & hopefully it will run OR, the good thing is there are people who are prepared to carry on with MSTS be it Payware or Community addons.

[EuropeanLoco]

Gentlemen,

I want to thank you all for the comments posted here; it surely does demonstrate there is a vast difference of opinion. But for once we are very please that on a forum that generally does not like the commercially section of the hobby, so many of you want us to continue development.
However as we have said, the finally decision still needs to be made, but with the reduced personal these days working out who does what is going to take time.
Remembering we are still creating 2 Activity Pack for release before Christmas.

“HUPAC” Push-Pull Freight Pack: for a number of “EuropeanBahn Routes”

“Commuter Pack South”: again new adventures for you to enjoy, with reskined unit from the EB Stable of Locos.

So, again thank you, but I believe its we got back to the job in hand, and like we have already said, if you want to be part of EB future inner sanctum which we calling for the time being “Members Rest-Room”, please drop us an e-mail.
ece5project@europeanbahn.co.uk and we’ll add you to the list, keeping you informed where we’re got with the project.

Best Regards to all and I hope you have a Happy Christmas & super New Year.

Ken A

[mickrik]

Hi There,

I would like to thank European Loco for coming on to the forum.

It is not often a software developer is brave enough to "stick his head over the parapet".

I think what has become of MSTS is, it is now a niche market where there are groups with specific interests.

There seems to be a group that likes Period Electrics,

There seems to be a group that prefers anything painted BR Blue

I am of the group that prefers period Steam.

European bahn have to look at the viability of producing for a niche market.

Mick