EB East Coast Express Part 5,6 & 7 to Edinburgh

[NiallGray]

Aaahh... now I've seen that, I'm not likely to be interested in further expansion.

[tubemad]

This message has been edited by a Moderator

Woah :shock:
I'm sorry to say but at £29.50 or £89 for all three...my interest is going down!

£12 for a membership will knock it to £18 (or £24 including the membership price anyway) but then it is £12 per year, so it soon builds up after 3 years etc.

Not knowing if EB will decide to stay with MSTS is one thing at the moment, but I am registered with too many things at the moment so I will wait for second hand copies in the future for this...otherwise I shall await RW3 development and see how that matches for price first

Sorry, but what are you on about? Have I missed a post about membership or prices?

Sorry I don't think it is in this thread actually...link:

http://www.europeanbahn.co.uk/MembersMain.htm

So let's say you get the 3 addon's over the 3 years as expected, £12.50 x 3 = £37.50.
Add the £18.50 for the 3 if you have a membership, that's £55.50.
£55.50 + £37.50 = £93

So actually you are better off with no membership and paying the full £89 for all three anyway. I'd imagine otherwise people would think it's a deal and only pay for the 3 'discounted' products then delete the account (there are people who will sign up to things to get discounts and terminate it after anyway), which would cost more...otherwise there's still £12.50 rolling out each year.
If to charge, you would have to guarantee that it will be made...£12.50 for nothing and the company collapsing will not go down well at all, it has already happened in the Railtour industry.

[Moderator Comment: Easilyconfused - Unacceptable comments removed.]

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[willtilston567]

What a rip off, :bad-words:
I was interested if it dose go ahead, but no way I am paying that much.
Especially then there are much better quality of routes available as freeware.
we are in a middle of a recession!

[carlwestwood]

What were you expecting it to be? A fiver? Dont be so rediculous.

Yes theres a recession. And there has been for years.
Prices in all aspects of retail increase and you can't expect them not to. You have to think logically.
I didnt see it to start with.

The reason the Members registration has been done, is so that when you commit so do we. That way no-one slogs their guts out for hundreds of hours building a route that nobody buys.

[gswindale]

However Carl, you also have to think what are the competition charging?
£20 Newcastle - York on RW
£20 Bristol - Exeter on RW
£25 Portsmouth - Woking on RW
£25 (£20 on offer) Scottish Capital Express MSTS

Thus almost £30 does seem somewhat pricey!

I must also admit that given EB's history with "vapourware"; I'm not willing to commit any of my money until the product is available.

[tubemad]

May I add what I add on here is opinions on what I see and not facts.

So I'd agree with gswindale here, the prices are lower for higher quality routes. Of course this is in my personal taste, I don't speak for everyone else HOWEVER if it was a lot less then I really wouldn't mind say £15-£20. Put it this way if it was £10-£15 you'd probably get more...agreed? £10 is cheap to a lot of people, so let's say 20 people like it, that's £200 straight off.
At £29 let's say 15 of those 20 loose interest and not bother as it is way too expensive in this current era, so only 5 get it, so only £145.

Again some might not want the £12 membership as some have already stated, again I'm with gswindale on this, the Caterham branch looked good but disappeared, so in my opinion I can only see if it's going to be released or not.

Carl - I see your point but at the same time, which other company does this? Even for non train sims, you don't pay Ubisoft (if they are still around?) per year to get a game so they know they have a market, just as much as you wouldn't sign up to Ford so they know how many new Ford models are worth making. That's my twopence on my opinion on that, anyone else is free to air their ideas.

I'm sure a lot of us are just trying to help that's all, I know my other comment was removed for reasons that I can see why but I was trying to help and in a sim market, we want to air our views so you would know what works and what doesn't. After all, you did put 'we are taking notes of comments' so I believe we chipped in our views...or am I on the wrong line here? If so, I'll come back when I trip the reverse point

[EuropeanLoco]

I firstly would like to say thank you to all for there comments positive or negative, even if the odd one was, well rude is the only way I can describe it.

But rising above such bad manners is the only way forward!

No final decision has been made, however if the feed back we have had both for the additional (Parts 5,6 & 7) of East Coast and that of our idea of a “Members Area”, is to go by, a great deal of our regular supporters and I not say thousands, but I am saying many, feel that a small yearly membership fee for :

FREE Activities, re-skins and a small number of new rolling stock models is value for money!

PLUS 50% off all EB’s mainline products.

IS A VERY POSITIVE IDEA !

Again thanks

Ken A

[michaelhendle]

Hi Ken,

As I already have the main core parts of the route,the only one I haven't got is the Leeds Loop, I will buy part 5 first to see what it's like before commiting myself, if it's good and up to todays standard,then and only then would I be prepared to pay the extra,if it's not then sorry but I wouldn't buy the other parts, as I'm on a Pension the extra amount for the group membership wouldn't be worth it.

The one thing I will say in EB's favour your routes usualy run on low end computers with out any trouble

[45002]

Didn't EB say sometime ago,that all future work on MSTS was going to be available via download only ?

Which would be cheaper than selling CD/DVD Boxed sets !

MARTIN

[expressboy1983]

Didn't EB say sometime ago,that all future work on MSTS was going to be available via download only ?

Which would be cheaper than selling CD/DVD Boxed sets !

MARTIN

A good point Martin, which seems to have disappeared from the website. I can't find a reference to it anywhere. Only this: "We have been working hard to deliver a new method for you to purchase EB products! Payloadz allow us to offer our products and ensure that everything is secure. We hope to increase the benefits you the customer will receive." I'm not sure entirely what that is meant to imply but it sounds good. As did this news of York to Edinburgh until prices where mentioned.

With the price being estimated at 29.50 each, my interest has vanished. As Geoffrey already pointed out, this is a ten year old sim. I don't see any reason for the price to be so high. The way I see it EB are just outmarketing themselves. With todays financial climate and with the age of the sim as main factors I wouldn't be prepared to part with anymore than 20 quid, unless there was somewhere else the money was going to outside of sim development. Like with NWC, some money went toward restoration of a loco.
I don't suppose you'll be pricing HS1 in the 30 quid range if/when it gets released, will you?

I'll come back when it's all nearing the end of development then judge for myself. How someone can put a price tag on something that doesn't yet exist is beyond me.

[EuropeanLoco]

Have any of you ever stop for a moment and spared a though for those of us, who spend many hour, no hundred of hours, creating product for your enjoyment regardless of whether you consider then (good or bad).

No, by the comment from the few, and lets be clear here it is just a few, and more to the point it always the same few, the same old name crop up time and time again, it like listen to an old 78 long player record squeaking away.

Such a shame, I make no secret and never have, that I not here just so you can have “something for nothing”, I have spent day after day and come to that, night after night burning the midnight oil, to hopeful give pleasure and enjoyment, and some kind of realism, but I have never promised perfection, I know some in the community have claimed to achieved perfection, but who are they kidding, most of you it would seem but I remain un-convinced.

Sorry, I not the best person for grammar or spelling, but at least I had the vision to released some 16 mainline product and quite of number of smaller additions. But what I not prepared to do is do if for nothing, which frankly is what is being suggested here, if you want it for FREE, then may I suggest you do it yourself.

[willtilston567]

if you want it for FREE, then may I suggest you do it yourself.

Nobody is asking for it for Free!! just not to pay over the odds!
I have purchased almost all of EBs past products and the most I have paid is £25 for East coast pt1 when it was new.
but unless the price changes you are going to lose allot of support including mine.

[markh5682]

Hi Europeanloco.

I know only too well how much time and effort it takes to produce content for MSTS or any other sim for that matter, especially routes, and I also realise that you are a commercial company and need to see a return for your efforts, and cover your costs, I don't think anyone on here seriously expects you to do it for nothing, reading back through the thread, I cannot see any poster suggesting that you should. (unless the posts have been removed)

However, I can also sympathise with many posters on here who are on a limited income (myself included) who would find a sum of £89 to finish the route rather prohibitive, especially as most people are used to paying approximately £20 to £25 for a complete route, then later add-ons to the routes being slightly cheaper, so the price probably came as a bit of a shock and put it out of the price range for some people.

It is entirely up to you how much you charge for your products, it's not for us to dictate to you how much you should charge, but in the end we will vote with our wallets, hiking the price up may discourage many people from buying it who otherwise would have bought it, which could actually lower the return you get from the product in the long term, especially if you have to discount it just to clear excess stock, in the end your sales figures will tell you whether you have got the price right or not.

Getting annoyed with people and telling them to do it their self will not help your cause or endear you to your potential customers.

Other than that, good luck with the route, I look forward to seeing it eventually when it becomes available.

[expressboy1983]

As your post came directly after mine I will assume that most of it was aimed at me. Therefore, in the most non cockey, arrogant or insulting manner...

Have any of you ever stop for a moment and spared a though for those of us, who spend many hour, no hundred of hours, creating product for your enjoyment regardless of whether you consider then (good or bad).

Yes actually I do. Often I pay a visit to Danny's thread to see how he's getting on with his South Eastern steam route. I followed the thread for progress on SCP with Geoff and Don and await it's release along with the following payday. Dave Corfield is often in my thoughts as he has created the legendary Dorset Coast which contains the areas which remind me of the good parts of my childhood, not forgetting Thames Mersey as well. Terry Cunliffe for his superb efforts with NWE, and ongoing commitment with the mammoth NWE V3. Chris Young, another one I often think of as his route has given me probably the most enjoyment out of them all. And I could go on but I wont, the list is too extensive.

if you want it for FREE, then may I suggest you do it yourself.

I have not once asked, said, demanded or recommended that EB do anything for free, nor do I remember anyone else in this thread saying anything similar. Where that idea came from I have no idea but it most DEFINITELY did not come from me.

<snip> ... and feel a more accurate answer will be served here on UKTS.

Thanks to everyone so far, we are noting all your comments!

My opening comments on this thread where not intended to be insulting or discouraging in any way, shape or form. If that's how they've been received then I can only apologise, but please do bare in mind that you asked for peoples opinions, so I gave mine. If you don't want feedback that you can't handle hearing, or don't want to hear, or don't like hearing, or whatever, then don't ask for it, it's simple.

I stand by what I said in my previous post in that I believe, that is to say in my own opinion, your estimate on pricing is too high for something which does not yet exist. Considering both the age of this sim and the fact the newer sim on the market rarely seems to go above 20 quid. What you want to charge, as has already been said, is entrely up to you. It's your business not ours. The point that I'm trying to make here is that if you out-price the people who already have your other route releases on their shelves at home, like I do, you won't get the return you're hoping for. I'm fairly sure I would not be alone in saying "I paid 20 quid for this one, 17 for that one, do I really want to pay 29.50 for this one?"

Now as I have said previously, I wish you luck with building the route if that is what you chose to do and I look forward to seeing WIP shots and videos as and when they are ready.

[EuropeanLoco]

I do concede that every subject has two sides to it. And while I too look for good value, but so should those providing value .

I still fail to see £29.50 is that high, MSTS begin life back in 2001 when the retail price was £24.99 and if you applied just the basis inflation form way back then you will be paying approx 5% per annum the price to day would in be in excess of £40.00.

anyway I think I have said enough and would I will like to hand the rains back to you the customer, maybe it time we consider if continuing is actual worth while, because you may think we had made a good living from TS, but you would be very wrong!

regards

Ken A