Undrivable Locomotives

[mikesimpson]

Recently, I have been buying some download content from the Steam site, and am really disappointed with the British locomotives.

Now, don't get me wrong, the WCML is a great route and the 56xx is a nice model but I don't want to know how to drive a Class 86 by 'tapping' controls, or the impossible 56xx by setting the Cylinder Cocks or it disappears in a cloud of steam and molten metal as soon as I try to drive it around the yard.

Neither do I want to hear stupid pings every minute as I drive along admiring the scenery, then the train grind to an emergency halt every few minutes because I did not touch some control or other.

I, like I suspect many others just like to drive the train through the countryside like I used to do with the earlier Class 47s etc, admiring the view and not actually trying to be an engine driver. Otherwise why is there a View 5 from the passenger carriages? Or the outside views like 2 and 4, you can't use these because you can't hear the pings and everything screams to a halt.

Isn't it time that locos were built so that us mere mortals can drive them? Or am I alone in the wilderness?

Mike

[partyspiritz]

Oh Mike I do agree with you I do lots small demos and some of these are at schools plug in Raildriver and off we go. But half the time we have to cab ride. Even showing it to adults it looks so nice to view from the outside.

But when we complain we get chastised by the rivet counters this should be a hobby for all to enjoy


Regards


John

[Kromaatikse]

For the most part you can drive using the Simple Controls. There are some locos that you can't drive this way (or indeed from the F4 panel or the RailDriver) because they rely on the scripting, but that is a Railworks limitation that appears to be near-impossible to work around.

The 56xx is actually not difficult to drive. The only differences from a standard steam loco are that you *must* have the cylinder cocks open when starting, and you must close the regulator and hold the E key in order to change cutoff. If you're showing to an adult, work that into your show. If you're showing to a child who might be put off by such details, use a different engine - or edit the script to take out these features - or switch to Simple Controls where the script is not active. The 56xx is not the archetype of "a steam engine" as much as, say, a 57xx is, so I don't think people will mind.

As for the AWS, well it's there for a reason and it's part of the experience. If you loathe it so much, it can be disabled by - again - using Simple Controls. Just don't be too surprised if you pass a red by accident and end up in the side of another train. Better would be to have the AWS horn audible from nearby head-out views, but that is another Railworks limitation.

So please don't blame the content authors.

[partyspiritz]

So please don't blame the content authors.

Am I blaming anyone no. But I dont wish to spend my time in the cab. Not all locos work in Simple Control mode and as for changing the script to take out those features I would not have a clue and there is not much help from those who have the skills to do it.

Regards


John

[bigvern]

I haven't bought the 56xx so can't comment on its little foibles, but I for one would have been most disappointed had the Class 86 not featured the correct tap changer implementation!

I've said it before though and I'll say it again, what RW is crying out for is a feature similar to Trainz where you can ride as a passenger on a train controlled by the AI. Indeed this was also an undocumented feature in MSTS - great sitting on top of a double deck tram on the Blackpool route and soaking up the atmosphere.

[stuart666]

Im not going to get into the 56xx debate again, I think all the points have been covered on it, and I respect everyones position entirely.But ultimately the community were asking for more realistic steam locomotives. Then a good friend of mine comes out with as realistic a locomotive as he could create, then people start asking for an easy version.

its not like there are not dozens of easy to drive locomotives out there. Indeed I think that is part of the reason why there hasnt been the mass exodus from MSTS. For the most part they dont have comparable realism with MSTS locomotives.

Ultimately I think it wise to have a debate about what the community wants, because not disrespect to anyone here, what it wants looks to wax and wane with the wind. We have a chorus demanding a feature, then when we get it, we hear an equal amount of criticism it was implimented.

For me, I dont care about outside cab driving. Yeah its nice for screenshots, but for me the objective is to drive the locomotive. If I wanted to stand outside and watch it roll around the scenery Id set my Hornby OO gauge models up.

As for riding in the carriages, well yes, its a nice idea. I suspect that something like that will probably occur when RSC eventually move towards some form of mulitiplayer, which seems to be their position. Perhaps you will be able to stand on a virtual platform and catch a virtual train. But should it get in the way of as much realims as possible in other aspects of the product? No in my view.

As for simple controls, It sounds like a simple request, but if you saw how much work goes into setting up these locomotives under expert control, you would understand why spending yet more time so you can turn all the hard work off that you put in doesnt endear itself to some authors. And why should it? Its a bit like Charles Dickins writing Oliver Twist, then being asked to cut it down into a 6 Chapter summary.

[ihavenonamenoreallyidont]

I've said it before though and I'll say it again, what RW is crying out for is a feature similar to Trainz where you can ride as a passenger on a train controlled by the AI.

Couldn't agree more!

[smarty2]

Like you get in WOS 3 too, great idea, and should be implemented in RW's too imo.

[partyspiritz]

Railworks is my train set for me it is moving art. It is no different than train spotting. I have been to lots of exhibitions both as member of ukts live and on my own and people always ask to see the train from the outside. The Bacup Branch line was built to be driven from the outside.


Regards



John

[Kariban]

So pick two engines advertised as realistic and professional to drive, and declare all engines too hard to drive? and then call anyone actually interested in such features a derogatory name. Next when someone tries to be helpful and point out the misconceptions in the posts so far, ignore it and then alienate anyone ( me for one ) who was actually prepared to offer help, by saying they're not helping much. What an awesome thread, I'd give points for a combined effort if it was allowed.

The simple matter is most stock is written to allow what you want and what people who want to drive a train like a driver want too. If one or two items aren't aimed at a spectator, then simply don't buy them! I don't buy things I'm not interested in, it doesn't mean someone isn't.

[rivimey]

I've said it before though and I'll say it again, what RW is crying out for is a feature similar to Trainz where you can ride as a passenger on a train controlled by the AI.

Couldn't agree more!

Sounds great

I think it would also be good if you could have a virtual footplate ride - that is, AI controlling, but you're on the footplate / 2nd seat cab / whatever. Then you may be able to learn by example too!

Mind you I guess that would require a better AI that actually knew how to drive the engine, rather than just move them, so perhaps it's just a pipedream for now.

Ruth

[rivimey]

But ultimately the community were asking for more realistic steam locomotives. Then a good friend of mine comes out with as realistic a locomotive as he could create, then people start asking for an easy version.

Stuart,

I'm sure there are many of us who really appreciate the effort that went into making the 56xx realistic. Please don't get downhearted because there are a few who don't want to use their engines in that way.

Ruth

[stephenholmes]

Good morning
Playing devils advocate surely the compromise solution would be simple on or off advanced controls?
Kind regards Stephen

[johnmckenzie]

I think it's fair to say that different people want programs like RW to do different things for them - and it's part of the beauty of this sim that it can keep most people happy! I also prefer mainly to drive from outside the cab, watching the way the trains roll through the countryside. With a bit of practice and concentration (and the HUD!) it isn't too difficult to drive this way without falling foul of the AWS alarm either (but you do have to have your wits about you!)

Having said that, I do also do some driving from the cab / footplate and some of the details on these are simply lovely, you really are missing out if you never venture in there!

[rhysicus1989]

Cant you use the simple controls?