Cross Country Glasgow HST services - Queen Street vs Central

[USRailFan]

When did Cross-Country HST services for Glasgow switch from Glasgow Queen Street to Glasgow Central? At the time of the ECML electrification, or wasn't it until privatisation under Virgin?

[yorkie]

There is no record of any XC via ECML HST workings into Glasgow Stations in the 1997-1998 timetable. Obviously WCML routed trains used Central.

If there were any XC via ECML HSTs operating to Queen St at electrification then I am certain they would have moved to Central, as InterCity made a decision to switch all their trains to Central. However, I suspect there were never any.

[USRailFan]

Hmm, I though HSTs were assigned to the Cross-Country network almost ever since the first deliveris (well, since about 1980 anyway)? So where were these used then?

[USRailFan]

(Just for the record, my question stems from this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Qu ... ay_station - the next to last paragraph under 'History' reads "In the 1980s HST were used on Cross Country and East Coast services, having to use Platform 7 with the end of the train being close to the tunnel mouth." which is why I wondered how long this practice went on.

[yorkie]

Edinburgh-Glasgow isn't a traditional XC route, though. What is CrossCountry then, and now, are quite different, and there are routes now operated by XC (the franchise/TOC), which are certainly not considered to be part of the CrossCountry route or served by such trains, traditionally. And, of course, vice-versa.

At the time of privatisation, there were not actually very many XC services north of Newcastle, and of those that did venture into Scotland, most terminated at Edinburgh with one or two to Dundee/Aberdeen.

I also doubt there would have been many HSTs on XC routes in 1980, if any at all.

The reference to XC services at Queen Street does surprise me. I have a 1987 timetable so I will take a look in that at some point.

XC services at Glasgow would only have been able to go into Central as they all went via Carlisle, such services now terminate at Manchester/Birmingham and are part of the TPE/West Coast franchises.

[USRailFan]

Well, if the 125 group is anything to go by, the initial allocations of HSTs were 27 for the Western Region (Paddington - Bristol/Cardiff), 36 for the East Coast Main Line (King's Cross - Leeds/Edinburgh/Aberdeen), 14 for West of England (Paddington - Plymouth/Penzance) and 18 for "Cross Country use" (source: http://www.125group.org.uk/index.php?mo ... play&pid=6). These are said to have been delivered in "late 1981" and assigned to Plymouth Laira.

[stuartpalmer]

I know there WAS an HST service into Queen Street, but it was only one a day and perhaps even a "saturdays only" service. As far as I remember it was an early morning service which ran via Edinburgh to the ECML and hence Kings Cross. It didn't last long - the problem being that it could use only platform 7 (as noted earlier) and put platform 6 out of commission for the duration of its stay, because it fouled points. Once the 225's started running, extending the occasional one from Edinburgh to Glasgow meant Central became involved because of the OHLE, Queen Street being a non-electrified station.

[FoggyMorning]

Worth bearing in mind that not all Cross Country services were filled by HSTs, many were class 47 + mk. 2 carriages

[yorkie]

In the 1987 timetable there were a couple of Glasgow QS - King's Cross trains, there was also a Summer Saturdays Only Glasgow QS - Scarborough, which I suspect was worked by a 'XC' set. (Back in those days I don't think XC was used as a brand name at all, as it was all InterCity) because it only offered light refreshments. If this used a set allocated to cross country workings then that could explain the wording on Wikipedia. That does not (necessarily) mean that trains ran from Glasgow QS to Birmingham (or beyond) via the ECML, I very much doubt that happened, and can find no evidence that it did. To be honest you'd get a better, more comprehensive, answer on either the uk.railway newsgroup or Railforums.co.uk.

[45002]

I know there WAS an HST service into Queen Street, but it was only one a day and perhaps even a "saturdays only" service. As far as I remember it was an early morning service which ran via Edinburgh to the ECML and hence Kings Cross. It didn't last long - the problem being that it could use only platform 7 (as noted earlier) and put platform 6 out of commission for the duration of its stay, because it fouled points. Once the 225's started running, extending the occasional one from Edinburgh to Glasgow meant Central became involved because of the OHLE, Queen Street being a non-electrified station.

During the 1980's through working of trains from Kings Cross to Glasgow Queen Street was, for a while, reinstated using IC125 units. The trains originally only ran on Sundays but were later extended to every day. IC125 units caused problems because of their length, the other power car of this unit would have been in the tunnel mouth, blocking access to platforms 5 and 6. These workings ceased when the ECML was electrified and through services now run to Glasgow Central. This is 43122 "South Yorkshire Metropolitan County" on the 20th of June 1985

http://www.jhowie.force9.co.uk/queenstreet.html

MARTIN