Stuttering and other issues (and my first thoughts)

[166Driver]

Been using RailWorks 2 for a couple of days now, it's a bit better than I expected, but I still much prefer OpenBVE. The frame rate itself isn't low, just that the scenery sometimes doesn't go past smoothly. I've played with the graphical details and it seems to make no noticeable difference to performance. The stuttering gets worse when arriving or departing a stop, and is quite annoying. I'm running it at 1080x1024 on a new PC (specs below)

Intel® Core™ i3-370M - 2.40 GHz
4GB DDR3 RAM 1333MHz
ATI Radeon 5470 1GB + 1723mb shared memory
750GB SATA 7200rpm
Windows® 7 Home Premium

Is there one option I may have missed that would make the most difference, or would I be better off turning the resolution down? If the latter, what is the next one down from 1080x1024?

Also other games I have run perfectly and smoothly, even FS2004 + 737PIC at maximum settings.

Another problem is sometimes it will stop playing some sounds, usually half the horn, the brake's air, and the AWS, and the only way to get them back is to save, exit RW and restart. I have no idea what causes this but does seem more likely to happen the longer I drive. I have EAX and software mixing turned off. Turning EAX on didn't make any difference, and I'm not sure if my card supports it anyway.

The rest of the problems I'm having are more to do with the simulator itself. Seems an improvement over MSTS, but still not happy with the physics, controls and sounds, especially on the default diesels. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as BVE, but I would have thought they could have implemented cab sway (not just a minor twitch on grade changes and points), carriages swaying in the external view, the drive changeover sound on DMUs, proper raindrops landing on the windows (like in EuroTruck and BVE4/Open) to give the wipers a purpose, and more control of the headlights, and proper control of the doors like in OpenBVE, working guards buzzer and TPWS,

One other thing I noticed is the animated passengers don't appear inside the train like in Trainz Railway Simulator, they just fade out near the doors. When starting the 166 in Oxford depot it looked bizarre that passengers were already onboard!

I find the cab views zoomed in too much but can't zoom out. I find it hard to control the levers with the mouse, as it doesn't have the BVE style notches I'm used to, and the keyboard can be hit and miss with the brakes. I know it shows the setting on the driver aids but I don't use those. TRS2004 was better in that regard, you could see the seting of the lever when the mouse was over the control. Even MSTS showed the percentage when moving the control. Is there any way to enable a joystick to drive RW with?

SpoorSim had a unique way of controlling, I found it worked very well. BVE showing the power notch was very simple.

I'm still getting to grips with RailWorks, it has been fun driving my local route with my favourite trains. Oxford looks almost convincing, though there is a footbridge and car park missing on the approach, and a small level crossing with a horn board missing near Kennington, I think it was a good effort. The 166 sounds odd because the revs don't change at 45mph, and each car doesn't rev at the same time, often stopped at stations and the rear car is still revving, and also there's no exhaust. :O The HST is better, but the horn sounds like my Bontempi organ! Also pleased that points trigger sounds unlike MSTS!

I just hope that a patch will come out to fix some of the issues and add new capability. I don't think I'm asking for the impossible, other simulators I've mentioned can all do what I want, but there isn't one simulator that can combine everything into one. RW have had a LOT of time though, and I did expect a bit more. When the novelty of driving Paddington - Oxford wears off I don't want the game gathering dust on the shelf. Passengers actually stepping onto the train, working wipers, door control, improved diesel sounds, and simulation of the train swaying on the tracks would be enough to keep my interests engaged for a very long time.

[vlado960]

Hi,
We have already written about that here I hope you will get some answers.
However, RailWorks is the only one simulator for me, and when they solve some important things (for me), I will send the picture-postcard to RSC team. I've already bought it (for this purpose) but is not yet time to send it

[growler37]

Hi
This is a very intresting post,hearing a new users view of RW,most of the problems you mention have been with us since RS,and it looks very unlikely, after so much time, that fixes will found,i agree it is irratating when RW throws a SBHH wobbly,or the sounds turn into squeeks for no apparent reason,or the fences that you have spent hours positioning on your route decide that it will omit the posts leaving floating wires, or the bad tempered loft items that have a mind of there own,the plain fact is like it or not,core fixes dont make any money,so what we have, is what have,the good thing is that if you stick to RW its tantrems can be worked around in various ways,as i say, if your prepared to stick with it,because when you find RW,s sweet spot it beats the rest hands down.
Regards
Kevin

[bigvern]

I have to disagree Kev. I personally think RW is in serious danger of getting left behind, unless RSC can afford or are prepared to invest and innovate in the programme.

Cab sway is mentioned in 166's OP, just about every other sim has that implemented and working well. That new Metro sim which Matt mentioned on the front page the other week has it. Even Trainz can do it by altering a few parameters in the config file for the loco, as demonstrated by the Russian M62 loco. (Incidentally cab sway is a combination of the train movement vs track irregularity/suspension bounce and cab movement vs driver (player) movement, not the zigzag effect Kuju first put in RS).

We hear about changes to the core which will improve the route builder and add distant mountains, but it has all gone quiet along with - as someone pointed out over at TS - any news about the NEC or Portsmouth add-ons. That's before getting into all the other things, such as sound dropouts and rubber banding which again have been carried forward from RS days.

The attempt at career mode has largely met with thinly veiled howls of derision. Not what users expected and has turned RW into something of an arcade game. Also over at TS this morning, a post asking why not have random loco failures or loss of power if you abuse the traction. In Train Driver 3, if you ran the ammeter in the yellow or red zone for too long, eventually your loco would break down. Let's get that in game, along with a feature where you can request a fresh engine to then come and drag you in. How about just being able to change engines at an intermediate station (which you can do quite easily in trains). Like I said, let's see some innovation during 2011 not just the rather stale MSTS+ that RW has rapidly become in my eyes.

[FoggyMorning]

We hear about changes to the core which will improve the route builder and add distant mountains, but it has all gone quiet along with - as someone pointed out over at TS - any news about the NEC or Portsmouth add-ons. That's before getting into all the other things, such as sound dropouts and rubber banding which again have been carried forward from RS days.

There have been plenty of posts on RS.com's blog and FB page regarding Woking-Portsmouth. NEC is planned for May-ish I thought so it's not surprising that the current focus is on the Portland route due out sooner. Likewise the core updates aren't due any sooner than late-spring going from the original announcement so the lack of any news on that front isn't especially surprising.

The attempt at career mode has largely met with thinly veiled howls of derision. Not what users expected and has turned RW into something of an arcade game.

From a small number of people who frequent this and other forums; i.e. a tiny minority of RW users

Like I said, let's see some innovation during 2011 not just the rather stale MSTS+ that RW has rapidly become in my eyes.

Career mode? Driving interface? Multiplayer expected at some point? You mentioned in another thread the Russian TEM loco and Chinese stock. Oovee's class 57 and presumably their forthcoming 156 feature increased functionality, we have mechanical gearboxes introduced with the class 101 and 02 add-ons, scripted enhancements applied to Just Train's class 20 pack, not to mention additional features another commercial developer has introduced. In my view there is plenty of innovation going on.

Steve

[Acorncomputer]

There are now in excess of 20 people in the RS.com development team and I think it is pretty certain that they are not all sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

They may not all be working on RailWorks, but I feel sure that much of what people wish for will eventually become reality.

Patience is all that is required.

[growler37]

Hi Vern
Yes i agree with what you say,the points i am trying to make is,i dont think the fixes and core improvements will come soon ,if at all! either, RS.COM does not have the expertise to find solutions to the large number of program errors,or they feel it is not a priority at this time,as i said in my earlier post,with the amount of time that has passed since RS was released,if a fix was possible it would have been implemented by now.
A fair point would be,if the resources that has been put into Career,Multiplayer,cosmetics,and been channeled into core fixes we would have a far better product now.
RW can be the biggest pain in the a***,but can also be highly enjoyable i stand by my comment RW is still the best out there ATM.
Regards
Kevin

[AndyM77]

The attempt at career mode has largely met with thinly veiled howls of derision.

Whilst I'm not a big fan of 'Career' mode, it could be fixed quite easily. Instead of rewarding you for running early, only offer a bonus if you are on time, no score deductions if you are up to five minutes late and then only heavily penalise for lateness over five minutes.

In the "Real World" it's far better to be late, rather than run early! After all, if there is a timetable there are no excuses for not being able to at least arrive / depart at or after the printed time. Running early serves no purpose apart from upsetting the passengers..

Of course, if the timings had some 'slack' in them as there also is in the "Real World" then perhaps more could be done to address the gaming mentality that you currently need to get anywhere near the top ten.

I think I've also sussed out the "Cheat" that the No#1 player is using for the passenger related scenarios at least, but I need more testing before confronting RS.com about it..


I'd think RS.com need to simply slow down the DLC releases for a little bit, yes you need the income, but less rushing of products out will give the buying public the impression that they are spending more time actually fixing the product rather than using it as a 'Cash Cow'. Of course, if another sim comes along in the meantime there is a likelyhood that it could blow Railworks out of the water if it's executed properly.

[styckx]

"In danger of being left behind"

Weren't statements like this made when it was first released, and the month after, and the month after that one? Rinse repeat to current day and it is still here, growing and expanding.

[Retro]

Kevin and Vern make good points here. I also feel that constant new releases of Payware is holding back other not so lucrative fixes and improvements that do not bring in more money. I know RSC have to make some profit to keep things going however. I can live with most of the problems and get a great deal of enjoyment out of RW. If you Run Rail Simulator and then try out the same Scenario in Railworks it is obvious that the stuttering has been worked on and is much less of a problem in Railworks. What really annoys me is that if the new Payware stuff is faulty it often takes an age to fix, if it is fixed at all. I qualify this by using the WCML Class 86 notch problem as an example. The Class 86 pack has had this fixed however
I have tried two Career Scenarios and gave up when I got into negative scores. As said by the previous poster it is all beat the clock and hang everything else.
To give RSC credit they did make major changes to the Scenario Editor which now makes producing Scenarios a lot easier, the interface being much more Intuitive.
Presumably only time will tell and I suppose all we can do is wait and hope.
Kind regards James.

[smarty2]

Seems to me we have been here before and done it all to death already? What is it we realistically can do? Don't get me wrong I would "like" to see all the above implemented and as far as I am aware of PJ said that innovation and development of the core was a goal? So might as well use what we have and wait for things to happen...........

[47712]

Hi

Being a user of Railworks from the time it was released, i can relate to yours, and other peoples frustration. The game, in the technical sides of things, really needs alot of sorting out. Railworks has alot of potential, but it just isn't being met. I do not think that railworks will be dropped or be forgotten about because of its many advances such as graphics and model details but i do find that for a game that is two years old, alot of issues should have been sorted out namely the constant stutter and elastic banding, the SBHH errors, the way it handles system resources etc. This is probably sounding like a rant so i will give a 'positive side' to my argument

Railworks is at least in the hands of enthusiasts, people who are into real life trains so atleast there is more 'passion' there then say Kuju had. I do not blame RSC for releasing alot of DLC, perhaps to expensive, because they need to make money and can't just rely on sales from copy's of the game, and you have to admit, some of the products they have produced have been quality, though i do see the curent state of the game limiting further progress. You can only go so far in 'enhancing' the game with new products, but if the core engine that makes everthing happen is sub-standard, then the idea of this becoming the best simulator is not going to happen. It's a bit like putting a 1 litire engine in a rally car, sure it looks the part, but it's not going to reach its full potential or what it's supposed to do, be a fast rally car in the same way railworks will never be the best simulator if the core is not there or if things such as elevation or correct physics, basic things that make a simulator work are not there either.

I must state again though, this game has great potential with enthusiastic employees, and no doubt highly skilled in what they do, aswell as a great fanbase offering much support and feedback. We must also remeber that RSC is a much smaller company compared to say the makers of Call of Duty etc which i think sometimes people miss.

Thanks and take care

Tom

[bigvern]

Stand by what I said. They are still in danger of getting left behind the rest. Not just train sims, but I just ordered OMSI Bus Simulator after the excellent reports on the forum here and watching the You Tube video clip. Even that manages to capture the sway and bounce of the vehicle as it follows a rough road surface. You also get to micro manage the journey (if you wish) even down to collecting fares and issuing change.

Full kudos to the Chinese and Russians for their innovation, but as pointed out in the German Railroads thread that is making much of the payware content being produced look decidedly bland. If an enterprising group of freeware developers can get the physics right and produce sound sets that differ according to external or internal view, then that's something RSC and others should be looking to match.

In raising the issue of innovation I was primarily addressing RSC's efforts rather than those developers who are trying to raise the quality level. I'll reserve judgement on the 156 until it's out (if I decide to buy it) but every payware loco I purchased recently demonstrates the same poor physics implementation we have seen since Day 1 of RS - too rapid acceleration, power cruise on 20% power and that ridiculous % brake system. I don't know how the Russians achieved their superb result with the TEM, but it does seem as if physics in general needs something re-writing in the core.

Multiplayer is of little interest to me though I respect the views of those who see it as a forward steps. If it brings parallel improvements to signalling and AI for single player mode, then it's served the purpose. However we were told some time ago - maybe back as far as 2009 - by one of the RSC reps, that the AI/Despatcher/Signalling functionality was pretty much at the limit of what the programme can do, being pretty much dismissed as user disatisfaction that RW does things differently.

The F4 driving interface still resembles something from a Fisher Price toy or Triang "Big Big" trainset and I can't seriously take it as a significant forward step. Noticeably, almost the first thing the TEM instructions require is for you to switch it off and use F5 instead.

I've mentioned previously that I don't regard Facebook or other scattered media as a proper means of announcing product info. Guess that's my choice at the end of the day and if I miss something, c'est la vie.

Contrary to what people might think, I do see the good in RW (as opposed to those who refuse to see the blatantly bad). I do use the game, I want it to succeed and indeed if some improvements to the editor do finally arrive I would like to resume route building.

[styckx]

Maybe.. Just maybe those people who you say "refuse to see the blatantly bad" saw it, still see it and just don't find it enough of a dooms day prophecy to sit around looking for any chance to keep bringing it up day after day like it is a sport. Instead they go on playing, creating, painting, or innovating.

[JasonM]

RW really does need to think about more than just pretty graphics, a lot of things under the hood need sorting out.
I have brought a lot of content and am happy to support it but I do wish it was a bit more realistic than it is, like Vern I hate the fact some of the engines/units look fantastic but once you start driving them you soon feel that all is not right in the physics department and to me that spoils it.
I also am not really a fan of scenarios/missions, I prefer to work a diagram and then enjoy the fact that anything can/or can't happen during the trip, at least then every time you drive it is different(just like omsi vern).
I am not really a multiplayer person but understand those that enjoy it, the only time I think I would enjoy it is if you were the driver and your mate the guard(or the other way round), as long as the guard van/coach interior is modeled and your guard sits in there and when at a station(if you are a passenger train) he can walk onto the platform wait for time/check doors, walk back to coach get in, ring bell/wave flag then I think this could be fun maybe, and of course for unfitted freight trains sitting in the guards van ready on the brake and to take care of shunting wagons.