True Scale - does it have a future?

sp762 · Post by **sp762** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:40 am

It seems that most NG workers are using the 2x NG option. Does this mean that TS (either 3' (Xtracks) or 2' (tsNG) is not viable? Why would this be the case?

sillyevan27 · Post by **sillyevan27** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:08 am

I'm not an offical NG builder of any kind...but since I'm working on some "NG" coaches I'll tell you this.
2x NG (meaning build it for Standard Guage) is easier.

(It's hard for me cause I'm a

to TSM) But I reckon that it's easier because you'd be working on Sandard Guage all the time. You wouldn' need to flip between NG scales + track and SG scales + track.

In short:

it confoozes me less

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:14 am

I have not even looked at any TrueScale stuff yet. I've only had experience of the 2x models but have to say that they do look rather splendid in 2x scale. However I have a coulpe of routes on my to do list that link to quarry lines and tramways where I will have to use Truescale (or make dummy non-working bits?) so there is a niche market for it for feeder lines to standard gauge routes I think.

So on this basis I voted yes, "but for limited use only".

I do not think any of the current batch of UKNG routes under construction uses Truecale except for Paul Holmes' Llanfair.

cua193 · Post by **cua193** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:32 am

I can't see the point of NOT building true scale.

If the route is 2x then all the scenery - buildings, people, cars & trees must also be scaled.

There is 3' track available on xtracks - surely those modelling the Ffestiniog & quarry lines would be better off using this & scaling 50%?
I've had a look at the finer section track from train-sim - there isn't as much involved in modelling trackwork as I'd imagined - knitting it together is beyond me.

I'm plodding on with the Manx Peacock - actually did some work on it yesterday. It's to true size. I can actually get it to run on standard track (for testing) with some of Paul's wagons for a load.

The point about modelling to scale is false - I could build a 2mm/1ft loco true size. The only factor is screen magnification. It's only 2 seconds work to scale a model so it's a bit pedantic.

regards
Richard Osborne

spontin · Post by **spontin** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:14 pm

My only reason for preferring 2x scale for NG is simply that MSTS is designed to view the locos & carriages at a specific height and angle.
If true scale NG traffic is used in MSTS then the overall impression in use is one of "toy scale" where the view is always down onto the traffic and you can't get low enough to overcome this.
When Kevin M produced his Talyllyn and Ffestiniog true scale versions of models, I tried out the 2x and the True scale version of a model and my comment above is based on what I discovered.
Scaling everything up using SFM is very simply and the final effect is well worth it.... IMHO. However, without SFM then I might well be advocating a different story!

Each to their own I guess but I will continue to use 2xScale as I like the final impression better.

Steve

kevmt · Post by **kevmt** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:07 pm

I have to say that I agree with Saddletank and Steve Pontin, I don't think that MSTS (at this moment) is very suitable for British NG modelling. The main problem is down to the diminutive size of the stock and there appearance in the Sim. It's a bit like the "looking through the wrong end of a telescope" effect. At 2 x scale the viewing effect is very close to true life. Also there are problems with the smoke effects not scaling down properly and the loco's do not look right belching out massive volumes of smoke. Scaling up the buildings, etc is not much of a problem using Decapods Shape File Manager. Personally, I would rather wait and see what MSTS 2 has to offer the NG modeller ( and whether x-tracks will be compatible).

Cheers

Kevin

pitleyfalley · Post by **pitleyfalley** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:28 pm

Having not had a lot of sucsess with x-tracks, find it easier to keep with the original models. I find that the camera angles look better and the whole image is far more solid. All of the NG work I have tried has used the orignal trackwork with the NG texture on it.

Chris

selsig · Post by **selsig** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:51 pm

A related but not entirely connected query:

Can you make standard gauge track sections in 2x as well. Its just being a picky git I would like to see standard gauge track where standard gauge track should be at Towyn, and in time perhaps Minffordd, Porthmadog WHR and Blaenau Ffestiniog without having to shrink the narrow gauge to toy train (i.e. trooscale) proportions. I'm not too fussed about stock (although a 2x class 158 in Centro livery to run AI on the Cambrian coast would be quite nice), just the effect really. Any ideas?

John

kevmt · Post by **kevmt** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:44 pm

John,

It is quite possible to do 2x std gauge track (and stock) as scenery items. It was something I tried many months ago when I was helping test Decapods Shape file manager. Might be a bit more difficult if you want AI trains as you would have to use x-tracks "technology" to achieve this.

Cheers

Kevin

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:25 pm

Also in truescale, the smoke stays the same size, so the loco makes a lot more smoke and looks very unrealistic.

kevmt · Post by **kevmt** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:12 pm

As another thought there is a another program where it is very easy to mix standard and Narrow gauge stock and that is Trainz.

The camera angles are fine, the smoke effects are to scale and adding different gauges is a doddle. There's no reason why you can't have standard, 2ft, 2ft 6, 3 ft gauge tracks in the same layout. Each different track gauge is only a file of about 60-70k and takes seconds to install. More sophisticated 2 ft gauge pointwork is also available ( See picture in the Auran Trainz forum, Ffestiniog stock topic )

Cheers

Kevin

decapod · Post by **decapod** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:12 pm

I need it for my Ashover route, the Clay Cross works end is a real mixture of standard and NG rails with an LMS main line runing alongside for a few miles.
Mind you - it probably won't be ready till MSTS 3 at the rate I'm progressing.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:51 pm

It's best to standardise on something and 2x works for me and it appears many others.

X tracks is a very good alternative but its obviously beneficial to find as much common ground as possible.

It's so easy to modify models that neither need be ruled out in favour of the other.

Narrow gauge is a specialised subject and it's surely better to remain flexible on the issue.

sp762 · Post by **sp762** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:54 pm

This is very interesting.

It seems that the only real barriers to most folk are:

camera angles - easily fixable by using the Camhack?
Smoke effects - no fix yet...

I must say I agree with Richard, there seems little point in doing it, unless you can achieve the interaction within the railway environment.

Or I could just buy Trainz - which means I also need to buy another graphics package.

Cheers

Mike

kevmt · Post by **kevmt** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:15 pm

But, surely, at the end of the day isn't possible to have both "scales" and people can use whatever "scale" they feel happier with. I have been very careful with the naming of the "truescale" patches so that both scales can co-exist on the same computer.
I don't think you have to say one is right or one is wrong, you just work to the scale you are happy with.

Cheers

Kevin

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