Skew bridges... again

[Wikkus]

Hi all,

My fledgling branch line route has hit a snag: there are a number of small, single track, single arch, brick bridges along the way. From what I've read here, the only solution for these would be custom 3D assets, yes?

That being the case, I'm stuffed

Not being one to give up so easily, I then thought that maybe I could substitute girder bridges instead, using Duncan Chaddock's bridge kit:

Bridge Kit [2631046 bytes] - Chaddock Engineering Bridge Kit V1.zip File ID: 21234 Date: 14 May 2009 - 13712 Downloads

Now, whilst the individual girders and tracks can be fashioned into a bridge, I can't use the buttresses due to the skew. Short of more unobtainable custom 3D assets, is there no loftable brickwork that can be used to "build" the retaining walls/buttresses?

Cheers, Rik.

[Tyburn]

Hi Rik,

I'm not sure if this post of mine is going to be helpful, but what I tend to do is cheat by combining several existing items together and orientating them such that most of them can be hidden except where needed.

Although I would say it would be easier to offer advice if you could put up a screenshot of the problem area? I don't think I fully understand the problem yet.

I've found that if you need to put a line of items in but want them perfectly in line, choose the item as usual and hover it over the map for placement. Without moving the mouse, click many times on the item so as to place several on the same spot. If you then cancel placement and select one of the items, use the red or green arrows to move it perfectly along its original axes until the edges line up. If you repeat this until you have the length you need, delete the rest that you don't want and use CTRL to select all of them. Rotate them and set them in place as required and line the camera up with the road (or rail, whatever is going over the track) and use the yellow gizmo to rotate it in other planes. If you use a combination of the 3D viaduct models, bridge ends, bridge tops and/or bridge legs, this can be quite effective. Sorry if you knew this already, I don't mean to patronise but again I don't think I fully get what you were asking!

Hope it helps somehow. Good luck with the route.

Joe

[Wikkus]

I'm not sure if this post of mine is going to be helpful, but what I tend to do is cheat by combining several existing items together and orientating them such that most of them can be hidden except where needed.

Hi Joe,

Yeah, that's what I gathered from reading lots of other posts and having picked up a few hints and tips over the years -- I've never tried a route 'til now, but I've kept my eye on the forums

Although I would say it would be easier to offer advice if you could put up a screenshot of the problem area? I don't think I fully understand the problem yet.

Fairy nerf

I've just spent the last couple of hours trying to get my head around Google Sketchup and achieved the below -- I'm not an architect or a civil engineer which probably shows

The trackbed is a bit wider than I actually intended, but the layout is essentially what I would like to achieve.

Plan view of skew:


note the near vertical abutments and the truly vertical supporting walls, both are parallel to the road.

3D view of same.


Hope this helps

Cheers, Rik.

[Tyburn]

Hi Rik,

Very nice graphics there! I am actually studying Civil Engineering believe it or not but that's not to say I could produce much better!

They've given me an idea and I am about to practice it in my route. If it vaguely resembles what you're after I'll send you some screenshots via PM and explain how I did it.

What comes to mind is to use the offset tool from the track or road (whichever is underneath) to lay "Wall Brick 3D Loft". Raise/lower this to the height of the road/track being carried by the bridge. Then use the gradient tool to set two more points to modify on this wall, either side of the top loft (road/rail). Keep these two points at the same height. Using CTRL, select both of the outer gradient markers on the brick wall and drag them down until the white slabs on top of the wall are below ground (just, depending on the angle you might want to make the wall longer or shorter here). Trial and error will win you the day here (until someone creates exactly what you're after as one 3D model!) then I'd move on to offsetting "Grass Bank Loft" from the upper loft and ensure that it starts/stops in such a way that it's hidden by the wall. You can hide any gaps with vegetation or other objects and then just place bridge top pieces where the bridge should go.

Easier said than done, I bet! If my tests prove successful enough, they might stay in my route (inspired by you of course!) so the idea can be shared by all. If it fails, I will just come on and admit defeat, accepting public humility and every other online ailment associated with such a task.

Here's hoping! Watch this space...

Joe

[Squatch]

Hiya - I know exactly what you mean! I'm trying to build the Crossgates to Wetherby line, and while I've taught myself route building (to an extent, still got to get my head round signalling!!), out of the 54 bridges on the 7 miles, 70% of them are at an angle between 20° and 45°!! As I'm sure you've found out, the standard 2 track bridges impinge on the line when rotated, and I'm yet to find any compromise that I'm truly happy with by manipulating the assets I've found so far.

So to that end, this week I've taken the plunge and bought the pro version of 3d canvas, and I'm going to try and make my own. I'm starting with tutorials to make a shed (!!), but once I can build things and get them into RW, my intention is to make both bridge "ends" and a couple of complete stone bridges at a couple of angles.

Can't promise it'll be quick, but if and when I do get anything worth putting up, they'll be on here for download.

Good luck in finding anything in the meantime, and if you do, please let me know!!!

Cheers, Matt

[mundo]

Hello

I don't want to sound unhelpful, But I don't see what the problem is. Tyburn asked you to post a screenshot of the problem and you posted a render of a 3D model

"I've just spent the last couple of hours trying to get my head around Google Sketchup and achieved the below"

If you can do this in Sketchup within a couple of hours, I think you should allow yourself a couple more and have a go with Blender. There's plenty of help in the 3D section regarding Blender. Building the butresses yourself should be a fairly simple but rewarding experience. Also once you have built the first bridge it's a lot easier to copy/paste, make a few adjustments and build all the bridges on your route as custom objects.

Cheers

Mundo

[Wikkus]

Hello

I don't want to sound unhelpful, But I don't see what the problem is. Tyburn asked you to post a screenshot of the problem and you posted a render of a 3D model

"I've just spent the last couple of hours trying to get my head around Google Sketchup and achieved the below"

If you can do this in Sketchup within a couple of hours, I think you should allow yourself a couple more and have a go with Blender. There's plenty of help in the 3D section regarding Blender. Building the butresses yourself should be a fairly simple but rewarding experience. Also once you have built the first bridge it's a lot easier to copy/paste, make a few adjustments and build all the bridges on your route as custom objects.

Ahh, hoisted on my own petard, so to speak!

I will have a squint at Blender at some point. For now, I'm going to press ahead and get my track down and my terrain the way I want it -- 30m DEM data is proving to be less helpful than I thought it might be -- and then come back to the stuff I don't have a fix for, i.e. anything that's likely to require a custom build. Currently contemplating the prospect of several bridges (not just this one and including a quite impressive skewed Staffordshire blue brick affair that carries the Midland Mainline over a road), several station buildings, a couple of flat-roof-style Midland signal boxes and two stately homes ... {phew!}

Incidentally, your footbridge kit is likely to get pressed into service a couple of times if I ever make it as far as the junctions with the main lines

Cheers, Rik.

[Wikkus]

54 bridges

Eeek! Blimey, Matt! ...

Rik.

[Buckeye]

Hi Rik
I've just added a skew arch bridge to my route, I'm sure this will either be useful for a couple of assets or be encouragement to become a bridge builder. We could certainly use a few more asset builders.
Will upload asap.
Must go to watch a steam train class 8 48151
regards
Buckeye.

[Wikkus]

Hi Rik
I've just added a skew arch bridge to my route, {...}
Will upload asap.

Cool, ta

Rik.

[Squatch]

54 bridges

Eeek! Blimey, Matt! ...

Rik.

Ha ha, yeah, when I started building the route, it was just because it was local and was one of the first to be axed by Beeching. I didn't trouble myself with "small" details, such as bridges, and signals, how hard can it be. Pfff!

Still, lesson learnt, and hopefully one or more of us will get better at sketchup/canvas/blender and get some good quality assets up for use over time.

Matt

[antonyperks]

Have a look at brendons Irish rail assets there are some nice skew brodges in there

[Wikkus]

Hi Antony,

any more clues? Brendan has been a busy bunny and I'd rather be able to go look directly at the right files rather than have to download all of them and then figure out what assets came from what package, iyswim?

Cheers, Rik.

[Wikkus]

What comes to mind is to use the offset tool from the track or road (whichever is underneath) to lay "Wall Brick 3D Loft".

Check...

Raise/lower this to the height of the road/track being carried by the bridge.

Check...

Then use the gradient tool to set two more points to modify on this wall, either side of the top loft (road/rail).

Ahh... uhh... Not sure I got this bit right; my gradient widgets were on either end of the loft I'd just thrown up... Am I right to think that what I did next (split the wall at two points) was what you intended to happen...?

Keep these two points at the same height. Using CTRL, select both

Check...

of the outer gradient markers on the brick wall

Right... this is where I suspect I'm doing something wrong: the above implies that there ought to be more than two...?

and drag them down until the white slabs on top of the wall are below ground (just, depending on the angle you might want to make the wall longer or shorter here).

Right, this makes sense; dragging the two outer bits down to create the "wings"...

This meant I ended up with this:
(click for full size)


...which is not bad... except for the vertical faces that don't rotate downward with the rest of each "wing" and stick up like a rugby goal...

Trial and error will win you the day here (until someone creates exactly what you're after as one 3D model!)

Well, I tried with a great deal of error -- perhaps you can flag what I'm doing wrong...?

then I'd move on to offsetting "Grass Bank Loft" from the upper loft and ensure that it starts/stops in such a way that it's hidden by the wall. You can hide any gaps with vegetation or other objects and then just place bridge top pieces where the bridge should go.

This is going to take a fair bit of jiggling as the gap on one side is quite large and will require a small forest of vegetation to disguise it

Rik.

[antonyperks]

sorry rik, i think......they are on his edenderry branch, but not 100% sure i found them when looking through my bridges section !