Fumes

[oldrocker]

I've just got back from seeing Ozzy at Birmingham Town Hall (wonderful, intimate gig in front of local people! )

When I got to New Street there were three X Country Voyagers, out of service, just sitting there with their engines running. If you know New Street, and I'm sure a lot of you do, this created a fog of fumes which made the eyes water.

Local bus drivers have recently been told that when parked up awaiting departure, they should turn off their engines.

Is there any reason why this can't apply to Voyagers?

[danielw2599]

In general, engines are usually left running to keep the engine warm and to keep all the systems (including brakes) operational. I don't know the area concerned but it may be that the voyagers were out of service at the time of your visit but were expected to run (either as ECS or in service) a little while later. However, if diesel trains are permitted to idle within an enclosed area I would expect there to be either adequat ventilation or some kind of extractor system.

[TransportSteve]

Yeah, it makes me fume also..... You can't smoke on the station platforms now even though you're outside in the open air, and to see the diesel fumes choking staff and passengers alike seems so damned hypocritical.....

Rant over..

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

[alexnick]

I find New Street a horrible station for diesels anyway - they're also so loud with the sound echoing in the enclosed hall. And I fully agree about exhaust fumes as well.

They could be like 180s, where two out of three engines cut out if on idle for a long period of time.

I'd always imagined though that they didn't switch train engines off because it would be too embarrassing if they didn't start up again.

AN

[gswindale]

You can't smoke on the station platforms now even though you're outside in the open air.

And with good reason too.

Why should I have to find an alternative location on the platform just because the idiot next to me decides he cannot wait any longer for his nicotine fix?

If you want to smoke, time your arrival at the station better!

[Kromaatikse]

Even on a relatively open station like Lancaster, I've found Voyagers rather oppressive to stand next to. A combination of noise, diesel fumes and cooked brakes... yuck.

The big thing is that the Voyagers are a fully enclosed and air-conditioned design, so their auxiliary load is relatively high. This probably accounts for the relatively fast and loud "idle". I'm surprised however that if they are only due for ECS movements, the AC is not shut down along with at least half the engines. I'd be extremely surprised if a Voyager was unable to shunt itself on reduced power.

[AlistairW]

The trains were built without the ability to easily shut down specific engines.

Recently East Midlands Trains have been upgrading the software on their Meridians so that only one of the engines is kept on. This will power the 110V things on the train (so some lights, seat reservations and the all important beer fridge) and shut down the 230V circuit (not sure whats on this). If its sucessful it will be shared with CC and Virgin. In the longer term there will be different modes allowing the driver to have enough power for whatever is required such as shunting or idling.

New Street is pretty grim at the best of times, god knows why they're going to concrete over even more of it!

Ali

[Pyromaniac]

Could be that its like my local bus company where, if a driver is having his stand time before his last trip then he damn well leaves the engine on in case it doesn't start again!

Cheers

PT

[spartacus]

I know that was the policy on 1st generation DMUs and most diesel locos up to fairly recently, but it'd be surprising for a Voyager.

[jbilton]

Hi
Strangely enough on gen 1 DMUs, it was written that they were not left idling for more than 10 Min's.
Obviously we know in practice this was ignored.

Not related ... but very impressive ... was an old 62x Chieftain tank regiment waiting in a field, all on tickover...

Cheers
Jon

[phill70]

Hi
Strangely enough on gen 1 DMUs, it was written that they were not left idling for more than 10 Min's.
Obviously we know in practice this was ignored.

Cheers
Jon

Not too sure where that was written Jon, as I was trained on them, and never saw anything about 10 mins, or anything like it.

[AndyUK]

It's in the 1978 DMU driving instructions (http://www.locodocs.co.uk/brmanuals/dmu ... ns1978.htm) which give the time as 5 minutes, with a couple of exceptions. For example where starting from trackside would be dangerous.

Andy L

[GlennMitchell]

I had a room in the Encore hotel in Derby a couple of months back, in a room that had a view of etches park, only to be lulled to sleep (went to bed about 11ish) by every meridian in sight with it's engine running. I woke up about 4am and noticed that they had all gone off and all was quiet, which seemed odd as i assume that they wouldn't have been going anywhere between me going to bed and waking up in the small hours. But then when I got up at about 8ish they had all gone so I guess there were no problems starting them up again

[bigvern]

Maybe it's just me but I always loved the smell at Birmingham New Street, but then I could breathe in (railway) diesel fumes all day long...

Many years ago when most trains were loco hauled 10+ coaches, the exhaust would not be emitted right under the roof but at either end or in the open air.

[Kromaatikse]

Funnily enough, the reason why some major stations lost their high overall roof and gained an office block on top instead, was because the space was supposedly no longer needed to disperse smoke and steam from locomotives. The more things change...