Question on Train.dat "PowerNotchReduceSteps"?

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BVECOLORADO
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:08 pm

Question on Train.dat "PowerNotchReduceSteps"?

Post by BVECOLORADO »

@Chris, aka Leezer3:

Considering you are now professionally familiar with the openBVE program source code, can you help clarify an item in Train.dat?
Specificly the 4th line under #HANDLE, the value "PowerNotchReduceSteps" as described in the latest documentation.
This has always been a odd useless item for me & have never had need to set this as anything but 0.
This may have use in simulating real Japanese trains?

So I'm wondering if this was long-ago mistranslated from Japanese to English by Mackoy, and this value was intended to
represent a 0 or 1 option for how the train\wagon brakes work when being released, meaning do the brakes release
in "Direct" Mode typical for some Freight Trains, or "Graduated" Mode typical for most other worldwide trains?

This question has arisen because I'm studying the hardware+operating details of actual train air brakes,
specificly the most common KnorrBremse\UIC or WABCo\AAR equipment that's used worldwide.
These system have common ancestry dating back to the 1870s, and operate very much alike,
excepting that BrakePipe pressure maximum settings (and in turn other proportional system pressures)
vary from as low as 65psi(448kpa) to as high as 110psi(758kpa).

Thanks again for your long hours of work improving the openBVE program.
BC


PS:
Building .B3D objects & images to use in .Animated Assemblies for train Cabs\ CockPits \ ControlStands \ ControlDesks
conforming closely to standard BR \ UIC \ AAR \ APTA \ CRC \ JRW \ RDSO \ RISS \ GOST....
using true scaled components: Bombardier \ BREL \ Siemens \ Faiveley \ Knorr \ Westinghouse \ GE \ EMD...

Goal is to provide an accurate cab with as many operating\animated item as is reasonable,
that can be [Include]'d in appropriate cars final assembly *.Animated files along with properly scaled & centered DMU, EMU, or Loco exterior objects.

It appears, sufficient information via Google document & image searches, along with time + study,
is available to accurately detail dimensions & operation of the components & hardware required.

Should include as a minimum these animated items:
Gauge SubPanel < Any of several legacy\modern subassemblies: Knorr \ WABCo \ GrahamWhite \ GE \ EMD...
~ Gauge1 = MR + ER Pressure kpa Or psi Or kg/cm2, 2 Needles
~ Gauge2 = BP + BC Pressure kpa Or psi Or kg/cm2, 2 Needles
~ Gauge3 = BP Leakage kpa/Min or psi/Min or kg/cm2/Min, 1 Needle
~ Gauge4 = Steam Pressure For Steam Locos, Traction\Dynamic Amps For Diesel\Electric Locos
~ Gauge5 = Tender Fuel Level SightGlass For OilFired Steam Locos, Fuel Level Dial\Display For Diesel Locos, LineVoltage Dial\Display For Electric Locos
~ Gauge6 = Tender Water Level SightGlass For Steam Locos
~ Gauge7 = Boiler Water Level SightGlass For Steam Locos
~ Injector Valve, Handle Detents: On~Off For Steam Locos
~ FireBox Damper &\Or Blower For Steam Locos

For Steam Locos:
AirBrakeControls < Typical PneumaticOnly model: Westinghouse.6ET
~ Auto Brake Handle AKA TrainFailSafeBrake, Detents: OverCharge~Running~AutoRles+IndeHold~Lapping~Service~Emergency
~ CutOff Valve, Selects Direct\Graduated Release Of Frht\Psgr Brakes, Handle Detents: FrhtLead~Trailing~PsgrLead
~ Inde Brake \ Loco Brake \ StraightAir Brake, Handle Detents: Release~Running~Lapping~SlowApp~FastApp
MasterControls
~ Reverser, Handle Detents: F6~F5~F4~F3~F2~F1~Neut~R1~R2, Requires Constant Adjustment As Speed Changes
~ Power Throttle, Handle Detents: P0~P1~P2~P3~P4~P5~P6~P7~P8

For Legacy Diesel \ Electric Locos:
AirBrakeControls < Typical ElectricalInterLocks+Pneumatic Models: Knorr.26C \ Westinghouse.26L \ Faiveley...
~ Auto Brake AKA TrainFailSafeBrake, Detents: Release~Service1~Service2~Service3~Suppress~HandOff~Emergency
~ CutOff Valve, Selects Direct\Graduated Release Of Frht\Psgr Brakes, Handle Detents: FrhtLead~Trailing~PsgrLead
~ Inde Brake \ Loco Brake \ StraightAir Brake, Handle Detents: Release~Service1~Service2~Service3
MasterControls < Typical Models: Bombardier \ EMD \ GE \ Siemens...
~ Reverser, Handle Detents: Fore~Neut~Rear
~ Power Throttle, Handle Detents: P0~P1~P2~P3~P4~P5~P6~P7~P8
~ Dyna Brake \ Motor Brake \ Regen Brake, Handle Detents: D0~D1~D2~D3~D4~D5~D6~D7~D8, Omit For Local\Yard Duty Locos

For Modern Diesel \ Electric Locos:
AirBrakeControls < Typical ControlComputer+Pneumatic Models: Knorr.CCB+EBV \ Westinghouse.30A+30R \ Faiveley...
~ Auto Brake \ Train Brake \ FailSafe Brake, Handle Detents: Release~Service1~Service2~Service3~Suppress~HandOff~Emergency
~ CutOff Switch\Computer, Selects Direct\Graduated Release For Frht\Psgr Wagons, Handle\Menu Detents: FrhtLead~Trailing~PsgrLead
~ Inde Brake \ Loco Brake \ StraightAir Brake, Handle Detents: Release~Service1~Service2~Service3
MasterControls < Typical Models: Bombardier \ EMD \ GE \ Siemens...
~ Reverser, Handle Detents: Fore~Neut~Rear
~ Power Throttle, Handle Detents: P0~P1~P2~P3~P4~P5~P6~P7~P8
~ Dyna Brake \ Motor Brake \ Regen Brake, Handle Detents: D0~D1~D2~D3~D4~D5~D6~D7~D8, Omit For Local\Yard Duty Locos

For Modern DMUs+EMUs:
AirBrakeControls < Typical ElectroPneumatic Models: Knorr.EP90 \ Westinghouse.EPIC
~ Combined Auto Brake + ElecPneu Brake, Handle Dentents: Release~Service1~Service2~Service3~Emergency
MasterControls < Typical Models: ?
~ Reverser, Handle Detents: Fore~Neut~Rear
~ Power Throttle, Handle Detents: P0~P1~P2~P3
BVECOLORADO
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:08 pm

Re: Question on Train.dat "PowerNotchReduceSteps"?

Post by BVECOLORADO »

leezer3 wrote:Needing to reduce the power by a set amount before it takes effect is a reasonably common feature of early EMU units featuring a rheostatic control system (Although it'd probably be non-notched), so as far as I'm aware the current behaviour is probably what it was designed to do.
I'll take a look and see if anything in my collection actually uses this, but this is long-standing enough to warrant probably not changing.
Chris:
Ok, thanks for that info on early EMU brake controls; fair amount of variation on those old ElectroPneu controllers.
Agree, should not change the function of this old BVE variable, as it would likely break some old train configurations.

Wondering if you'd consider an air brake "CutOff" setting in your new XML formats,
per the standard Westinghouse.26L air brake & the newer KnorrBremse.CCB\EBV computer\electronic brake.
Those selectors typically have 3 detents:
~ Direct Release Lead: mode for a train > 50 cars, where Gradual Release won't work due to long pipe lag,
typical on American, Canadian, Australian, SouthAfrican heavy freights
~ Trailing: Puts this locos brakes in MultiUnit mode so to sync with another lead locos brakes
~ Gradual Release Lead: mode for a train < 50 cars, for smoother braking especially in passenger service
This selector sometimes has differing labels for the same modes, depending on the railway:
"Direct Release ~ Trailing ~ Graded Release"
"Freight Lead ~ Trailing ~ Passenger Lead"
"Freight ~ Trailing ~ Passenger"

Thanks again
BC

PS:
Your new Train.XML file format looks promising.
Recommend more specific variable names & not assume what's in the other guys head; examples:
Instead of <Length> make it <LengthOverBuffers,Meters> (length over body, headstocks or buffers?)
instead of <Mass> make it <Gross,Tonne> or <Tare,Tonne> (which one? Train.dat uses Tonne, why change to kg?)
Instead of <FrontAxle> make it <CenterToFrontBolster,Meters>
Instead of <RearAxle> make it <CenterToRearBolster,Meters>
BVECOLORADO
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:08 pm

Re: Question on Train.dat "PowerNotchReduceSteps"?

Post by BVECOLORADO »

A good video, detailing operation of the brake and power controls, on British Railways 414+415+416 EMUs.
At about 11:30 in the video, it mentions the requirement to reduce power completely to 0, before moving to a lower power setting.
I suspect this is required on older controls to prevent surging\arcing in the traction motor and contactor components.

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Thanks
BC
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