Low Frame Rate

Information for Experts and Users on running of MSTS under Windows 10. The hardware combinations that work and more importantly the combinations that are proven NOT to work.

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tary5
Getting the hang of things now
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:29 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire, UK

Low Frame Rate

Post by tary5 »

Hi Everyone
I have recently acquired an additional desktop computer to use as a back up machine. The specification is shown below. I have installed MSTS at C:\1MSTS plus all of the S4M required add on's as well as Train Store and Ged's TSFE.
As the computer has an AMD video card I have also added atiumdag.dll to the root MSTS folder and applied "The Fix".
MSTS and the AE work OK and will run all of the default route's and activities, however the frame rate is stubbornly
fixed at 4fps and never changes at any time. In fact as soon as the sim loads up to the welcome/back/home/options screen the mouse curser is very slow in it's response to mouse movements, moving in a series of jerks.
I wonder if any of you fella's out there are able to give me a clue whether or not I am going to be able to solve this problem on this machine given it's spec.

Fingers crossed in anticipation,

Cheers,

Terry White :-? :-?

Specification

OS Name Windows 10 pro
Version 10.0.19043 Build 19043
System Type x64-Based PC
Processor AMD Phenom(TM) ii X4 925 Processor. 2800 Mhz, 4 cores 4 Logical Process
Bios Version American Megatrends inc 2102 17/06/2010
Installed Physical Mem Ram 12.GB
Total Physical Mem 12.GB
Available Physical Mem 6.63GB
Total Virtual Mem 17.8GB
Available Virtual Mem 4.15GB

Graphics Card
AMD Radeon HD5700 Series
Driver Version 15.201.1151.1008
Memory Size 1024 MB
Memory Type GDDR5
Core clock 700 MHz
Memory Clock 1150 MHz :-?
Windows 10 pro 64 bit. Intel core i5-4430 cpu@3.00GHz. 4.0GB RAM. Nvidia GeForce 210. Windows Defender
slipperman12
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 5756
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am
Location: North Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Terry,
That PC is very old, in computer terms!

In the day, I used to run a similar AMD processor with an AMD HD 5750 graphics card and never had low frame rates like that, although that was using Windows 7. The HD 5700 is slightly newer than the 5750 and should give better results, so long as it's not the Mobility version.

If you mean that the MSTS default routes only run at 4fps then I would say there's something wrong with the PC, or its settings. I have not used an AMD graphics card for several years so have no experience of "The Fix", but would suspect something in its setup might be causing the problem.

I have an old PC which uses an AMD Phenom II 965 processor (3.4Ghz); I will try it with an even worse performing AMD graphics card - HD 5450 - to see how it runs MSTS, and will come back with the results (if any!) later this week. In the meantime, you may well get a solution from others!

I'm assuming you have installed the latest Win 10 drivers for the 5700 from AMD and applied them while also applying "The Fix".
My final thought, at the moment, is make sure that Windows is actually using the HD 5700 drivers and not its default VGA drivers - use Device Manager to check this.

Cheers,
Ged
Intel i5-4690K (3.5Ghz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB) graphics card, Asus Xonar DS sound card. Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
tary5
Getting the hang of things now
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:29 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by tary5 »

Hi Ged,

Many thanks for your input. You have given me some food for thought and it's kind of you to offer more input in due course.
I have also installed Open Rails on this machine and am getting rates of between 165 and 190fps and so I may well content myself with just running OR on this machine.
I can still use the editors for MSTS whilst it is still installed.
Anyway thanks again for the prompt response.

All the best for now

Terry
Windows 10 pro 64 bit. Intel core i5-4430 cpu@3.00GHz. 4.0GB RAM. Nvidia GeForce 210. Windows Defender
slipperman12
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 5756
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am
Location: North Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Terry,
No problem, mate :)
If Open Rails is giving you those fps figures, there's nothing much wrong with the PC generally!

It's probably on my PC somewhere, but if you could point me to the source of "The Fix" it will help. The only AMD fix I know of, and can locate, is the original one which didn't work on later versions of the drivers or Win 10, but I believe it has been updated.

Cheers,
Ged
Intel i5-4690K (3.5Ghz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB) graphics card, Asus Xonar DS sound card. Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
tary5
Getting the hang of things now
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:29 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by tary5 »

Good Morning Ged,

The links that I used are as follows:-

https://mega.nz/#!wYIB0A7a!ulBZEW5mP7M4 ... ZN0y1qLy4I

to download the fix, accessed via this thread:-

https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthrea ... TS%2Fpage2

Without the file atiumdag.dll in the MSTS root folder Train.exe will not launch the sim.
With the file present in the root folder Train.exe again will not launch the sim.
With the file present in the root folder and the fix directed to C:\1MSTS, then the fix run, Train.exe launches the sim OK however with the documented low frame rate.

And that's it for now. I guess I will just sit on this problem and see if eventually I or any one else comes up with an answer, but I am not holding my breath!!

Fortunately my main computer has a Nvidia graphics card and MSTS runs fine on that.

Thanks again Ged for your time,

Cheers

Terry
Windows 10 pro 64 bit. Intel core i5-4430 cpu@3.00GHz. 4.0GB RAM. Nvidia GeForce 210. Windows Defender
tary5
Getting the hang of things now
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:29 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by tary5 »

Hi Ged

"I'm assuming you have installed the latest Win 10 drivers for the 5700 from AMD and applied them while also applying "The Fix".
My final thought, at the moment, is make sure that Windows is actually using the HD 5700 drivers and not its default VGA drivers - use Device Manager to check this."
Well I thought I had but decided to visit and download the 5700 drivers from the AMD download centre. What downloaded was a file with the following name "Radeon-Software-Adrenalin-2020-21.6.2-MinimalSetup-210628_web". I then ran the contained .exe file, rebooted on completion and RESULT!!!

Now recording between min38 Max 65fps with MSTS and as a bonus 185 to 225 with OR.

Further checking showed that you must have atiumdag.dll in the MSTS root folder and it must have the fix applied for MSTS to run. Just having atiumdag.dll in the root folder will result in the MSTS not starting.

As I have all my routes set as Mini Routes, a copy of the patched atiumdag.dll has been placed each mini route root folder. It seems as though you can copy and paste atiumdag.dll from your patched Main MSTS install or direct the fix to "atiumdag.dll" in the mini route you want to patch. Failure to do this results in the MSTS not running.


Thanks again for your help and if course inspiration to persevere


Cheers for now


Terry
Windows 10 pro 64 bit. Intel core i5-4430 cpu@3.00GHz. 4.0GB RAM. Nvidia GeForce 210. Windows Defender
slipperman12
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 5756
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am
Location: North Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Terry,
That's great news, mate :) (Especially because I don't need to dig out the old PC now!!)
However, many thanks for the links - I have now archived the bugfix, in case it's not the same as my original!

From your new report, I would suspect that Win 10 was using its default VGA drivers, but, obviously, it can't be proved now!

You don't need such a high fps for Open Rails as that, so I suggest that you clamp it to 60fps - I believe the human eye can't get any benefit from anything higher than about 30fps. Setting the vertical sync option means that the maximum fps will be the same as the monitor refresh rate (60fps) ** and doesn't waste CPU and GPU power, resulting in less heat being generated, particularly by the graphics card. From the Open Rails main screen, click "Options", then the "Video" tab; left-click the "Vertical sync" box so that a tick appears, then click the "OK" button.

** Unless you're using an old CRT model where the refresh rate is, usually, 75fps!!

Cheers,
Ged
Intel i5-4690K (3.5Ghz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB) graphics card, Asus Xonar DS sound card. Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
tary5
Getting the hang of things now
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:29 pm
Location: Kidderminster, Worcestershire, UK

Re: Low Frame Rate

Post by tary5 »

Hi Ged
Yes a lucky escape for the old computer...........and owner||

Thanks for the reminder about persistence of vision and instructions for setting OR.

Reminded me of my my years as a cinema projectionist. Cinema projectors ran at 24fps but the light source was cut off twice for every frame of film, once as the frame of film was drawn down into the projector aperture and again whilst the film was being held in the projector gate the idea being to eliminate any flicker effect

Nothing to do with railway matters but good old days anyway.


All the best for now then


TW
Windows 10 pro 64 bit. Intel core i5-4430 cpu@3.00GHz. 4.0GB RAM. Nvidia GeForce 210. Windows Defender
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