Timetable wanted for Kings Cross to

[RolandBP]

Hi I created a scenario for the "1S28" train between Kings Cross and Peterborough from a 1978 Timetable I had that only takes me to Doncaster. I would like to be able to run it all the way to Edinburgh, via the other routes that are available. So if anyone is able to supply it I would be most pleased. That particular service was run with the class 55 and departed Kings Cross Station at 13.00.
Also I was working on a scenario for 1985, between Kings Cross and York, I have the timetable as far as Doncaster, so if someone had it all the way to York that would be great. The service I have it for is the "1L49" using the class 47. It left Kings Cross Station at 15.35.
The returning Timetable would be nice to have as well

Regards, Roland.

[malkymackay]

That's interesting, as the ECML Section A/YA WTT covered Kings Cross to the border from at least the early 1970's. In WTT up to the early 80's, the Kings Cross - Doncaster and Doncaster - Berwick sections were split up, but the timetable for a complete run is there if you look for it. By the mid 80's the whole run from London to Berwick is in one table, though your 1L49 service is spread across several columns. I would suggest looking at your timetables again.

As for running a service all the way between London and Edinburgh, if you are aiming to be accurate you are going to need a lot of WTT. For your 1978 scenario, you could potentially need something like 12 WTT

[TransportSteve]

Now then Roland, I can give you the times from Newcastle to Edinburgh for 1S28 from 1979/80 if you so desire...... I have it marked as an HST service ex Kings X at 13.00hrs??

In the WTT it states that the following must be observed - [2] Indicates the number of minutes allowed for temporary speed restrictions and other engineering work.

Newcastle Upon Tyne dep 16.22
Berwick Upon Tweed arr 17.10
Berwick Upon Tweed dep 17.12
[2 and a half]
Signal EG403 17.18
Reston 17.23 and a half
Grantshouse 17.28
Dunbar 17.37
Drem Jct 17.44
Longniddry [3 and a half]
Monktonhall Jct 17.55 and a half
Portobello 17.58
Edinburgh arr 18.02 and a half

Someone has pinched the half key off my keyboard so I've had to write it in......

Unsure about the other timings on this route, I'll have a look, I just happened to have this WTT out for something else I was doing.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

[davep]

@Steve.

Your ½ key can be found by holding 'Alt' and pressing 0189

[TransportSteve]

½ a virtual pint to that man, thank you very much Dave, you're a star.

Cheerz. Steve.

[lenfish]

@Steve.

Your ½ key can be found by holding 'Alt' and pressing 0189

Anyone know the code for the elusive "any" key, as in "press any key"?

Regards,

Len

[malkymackay]

Now then Roland, I can give you the times from Newcastle to Edinburgh for 1S28 from 1979/80 if you so desire...... I have it marked as an HST service ex Kings X at 13.00hrs??

You are spot on there Steve. 1S28 was booked to be a HST service on weekdays from May 79. In the 78/79 WTT it was a loco hauled formation, with the weekday service formed from Mk2D/F stock as follows, reading north to south departing London: Loco - 6x TSO - Mk1 RKB - 2x FO - FK - Mk1 BG
Like Steve mentioned, bracketed times are the number of minutes of recovery time inlcuded in the timings:

• Kings Cross dep 1300
  Wood Green pass 1307½
  Potters Bar pass 1314
  Welwyn Garden City pass 1319
  Hitchin pass 1326½
  Sandy pass 1334
  Huntingdon pass 1343
  Peterborough pass 1354
  Tallington pass 1359
  Stoke pass 1410
  Grantham pass 1413½
  Barkston South Jn pass 1416
  Newark Northgate pass 1422½
  Retford pass 1435½
  [8]
  Doncaster arr 1457½
  dep 1459½
  Shaftholme Jn pass 1505
  Selby pass 1514½
  [4]
  York arr 1532
  dep 1534
  Skelton pass 1538
  Tollerton pass 1544½
  Thirsk pass 1552½
  Northallerton pass 1557½
  [4]
  Darlington arr 1611½
  dep 1613½
  Ferryhill pass 1626
  Durham pass 1633
  [3]
  Newcastle arr 1648
  dep 1651
  Morpeth pass 1708
  Alnmouth pass 1723
  Belford pass 1736
  Berwick arr 1747½
  dep 1749½
  [4]
  Sig EG.403 pass 1757½
  Edinburgh arr 1850

You will notice that there is a major chunk of time allowed for slack approaching Doncaster. The Doncaster area was in the process of being resignalled, with the new PSB there not coming into use until July 1979. So a TSR or two in that area wouldn't be out of place ;
I hope that is of some use.

[RolandBP]

Now then Roland, I can give you the times from Newcastle to Edinburgh for 1S28 from 1979/80 if you so desire...... I have it marked as an HST service ex Kings X at 13.00hrs??

You are spot on there Steve. 1S28 was booked to be a HST service on weekdays from May 79. In the 78/79 WTT it was a loco hauled formation, with the weekday service formed from Mk2D/F stock as follows, reading north to south departing London: Loco - 6x TSO - Mk1 RKB - 2x FO - FK - Mk1 BG
Like Steve mentioned, bracketed times are the number of minutes of recovery time inlcuded in the timings:

• Kings Cross dep 1300
  Wood Green pass 1307½
  Potters Bar pass 1314
  Welwyn Garden City pass 1319
  Hitchin pass 1326½
  Sandy pass 1334
  Huntingdon pass 1343
  Peterborough pass 1354
  Tallington pass 1359
  Stoke pass 1410
  Grantham pass 1413½
  Barkston South Jn pass 1416
  Newark Northgate pass 1422½
  Retford pass 1435½
  [8]
  Doncaster arr 1457½
  dep 1459½
  Shaftholme Jn pass 1505
  Selby pass 1514½
  [4]
  York arr 1532
  dep 1534
  Skelton pass 1538
  Tollerton pass 1544½
  Thirsk pass 1552½
  Northallerton pass 1557½
  [4]
  Darlington arr 1611½
  dep 1613½
  Ferryhill pass 1626
  Durham pass 1633
  [3]
  Newcastle arr 1648
  dep 1651
  Morpeth pass 1708
  Alnmouth pass 1723
  Belford pass 1736
  Berwick arr 1747½
  dep 1749½
  [4]
  Sig EG.403 pass 1757½
  Edinburgh arr 1850

You will notice that there is a major chunk of time allowed for slack approaching Doncaster. The Doncaster area was in the process of being resignalled, with the new PSB there not coming into use until July 1979. So a TSR or two in that area wouldn't be out of place ;
I hope that is of some use.

Many thanks for that set of times, it matches perfectly with the times I have in the {Timetable} that came with a game I bought back in the late 1980's from "SIAM" http://www.siam.co.uk/conc5/index.php In that game the 1S28 was using a class 55.
I have copied and pasted your Timetable into my word processor and printed it off. I am so pleased, that I can now complete the run on the Creative Rail route from Peterborough to York, One of the routes from York to Newcastle and finally the recent route from Newcastle to Edinburgh.
Hopefully all those routes will be available through DTG, so I can upload them to the Workshop. Meantime I may have a go at making them as a rwp and Zip.
Mu KX to Peterborough is already in the WS.
Roland.

[RolandBP]

Now then Roland, I can give you the times from Newcastle to Edinburgh for 1S28 from 1979/80 if you so desire...... I have it marked as an HST service ex Kings X at 13.00hrs??

In the WTT it states that the following must be observed - [2] Indicates the number of minutes allowed for temporary speed restrictions and other engineering work.

Newcastle Upon Tyne dep 16.22
Berwick Upon Tweed arr 17.10
Berwick Upon Tweed dep 17.12
[2 and a half]
Signal EG403 17.18
Reston 17.23 and a half
Grantshouse 17.28
Dunbar 17.37
Drem Jct 17.44
Longniddry [3 and a half]
Monktonhall Jct 17.55 and a half
Portobello 17.58
Edinburgh arr 18.02 and a half

Someone has pinched the half key off my keyboard so I've had to write it in......

Unsure about the other timings on this route, I'll have a look, I just happened to have this WTT out for something else I was doing.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

Hi, Thanks for your timetable input, for some reason it is not matching up with the one by malkymackay. Maybe it was altered at sometime?
Roland.

[TransportSteve]

Probably because my timings are for an HST and Malky's are for the Deltic, they didn't run at 125mph, of course.

Cheerz. Steve.

[malkymackay]

One other thing that should be considered is that the speed limits on the routes you are using may not tally with the limits as they were back in the late 70's. KX to Peterborough an Newcastle to Edinburgh will have higher limits with them being set in the modern day. Creative's route is closer to the limits, but still not quite matching my late 70's Sectional Appendix. The old York to Newcastle is so far off in many sections that I haven't got a clue where they got there speed limit info from. This has a noticeable impact when creating scenarios in the stretch between Northallerton and Darlington. The route as supplied has that as an 80mph section, when in reality it had been a 100mph section from at least 1970. At least you are able to change this in the scenario editor. For info on what the speeds were back then, you could do no worse than look at http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document ... appendices

[TransportSteve]

That's a good link Malky, thank you Squire. I was reading the ramblings of a Holbeck (Leeds) MPD driver on here- http://www.derbysulzers.com/holbeckthree.html if you scroll down to the section Deltic Happenings in his last paragraph he says that Feb 1979 was his last driving job on the Delly's as the diagram changed to running HST's from Leeds to Kings X which would appear in the WTT from May 1979 onwards, which ties in nicely with all the timings above.
I also noticed some nice photographs from a certain Gentleman called Richard Armstrong on there, is there no end to this man's talents....

Cheerz. Steve.

[davep]

Anyone know the code for the elusive "any" key, as in "press any key"?

Regards,

Len

Methinks you may be asking for a little too much there

[malkymackay]

The Derby Sulzers website has been on my bookmarks list for several years.

There was actually a re-issue of the Carriage Working Notices during January 1979 to cater for the HST sets coming into service. There was an increase from 7 to 14 HST diagrams. I imagine that there would have been a supplementary notice issued for the WTT to cover any re-timings needed, though they would have gone out of the window after the Penmanshiel Tunnel collapse in March 79 and the ECML wasn't complete again until August 79.

[RolandBP]

One other thing that should be considered is that the speed limits on the routes you are using may not tally with the limits as they were back in the late 70's. KX to Peterborough an Newcastle to Edinburgh will have higher limits with them being set in the modern day. Creative's route is closer to the limits, but still not quite matching my late 70's Sectional Appendix. The old York to Newcastle is so far off in many sections that I haven't got a clue where they got there speed limit info from. This has a noticeable impact when creating scenarios in the stretch between Northallerton and Darlington. The route as supplied has that as an 80mph section, when in reality it had been a 100mph section from at least 1970. At least you are able to change this in the scenario editor. For info on what the speeds were back then, you could do no worse than look at http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document ... appendices

Thanks for the additional info. I took a look at the 1972 WTT and it's quite scary the amount of stuff we had to sift through to find what applied to ourselves on the job. The NZR one was slightly smaller, but it certainly took me some years to slowly work my way through. Then as an instructor working in different sections, one had to look again and learn that areas "Local Instructions". It must be easier now with an "I-pad" type of device. {One would hope so}
Just a thought, with regards to your awesome "Bolster Wagons". They are just the job for the Weardale and Teesdale network route and for the Sheerness Steelworks, if one makes the scenario for an earlier era. It is a shame they can not be used in the RW Workshop.
Thanks again for the info, I will shortly be giving the Peterborough - York section a go. I may also upgrade my KX-Peterborough scenario as I discovered 3 wagons with conflicting numbers that are on 3 of my 'AI' services. This is something I have only just recently found out about as causing problems at times.
Cheers, Roland.