Atomic Systems

I do love this guys reviews on some routes and so on.

Here his latest www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmlAqIqylQI

MARTIN

Yeah, you can't beat un-biased reviews....

One interesting quote from near the end of that video

I definitely feel like I've driven an hour and twenty minutes

You can't ask for more realism than that, can you?

markpullinger wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:28 pm I would agree with Steve on this one - never having driven or ridden on these units, I would just assume that what I was hearing was close to the original. It might not be, but with no reference to compare to, I wouldn't be overly bothered by it - until someone pointed it out - then I would!

Here, BVE class 323 released in 2002, ancient but achievable in a game that is 20 years old but not achievable by DtG! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TZo2emCJg4 It even has bogie run sounds.

Yeah, you can't beat un-biased reviews....

Aren't we all biased one way or another. Alan's bias is no more different than yours are for DtG or against Alan, it is well-documented om these fora your dislike for his business model. Also, I am not against DtG per se, just against shoddiness wherever and by whomever it is displayed. If I bought a car and it didn't work properly I would quite rightly be aggrieved, why should that be any different to digital products?

There's a patch out for pax view of the 323 and an OHLE patch too for the route, selection of scenarios too. (look away, Gary)

https://alanthomsonsim.com/patches-fixes/

https://alanthomsonsim.com/scenarios/

smarty2 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:23 pm Aren't we all biased one way or another

Of course we are, and it could be claimed that it's obvious in this thread by the criticism from those who haven't bought the pack, nor seen/heard the stock in question first hand; but still they *know* (have been conditioned to think that way?) by an anti DTG bias.
It's interesting that you've linked to a patch for the OHLE, I didn't realise that that was tied in to the sounds used in the 323...could have seen a link to the passenger view I guess but not the wires....
..or are you now saying that the route itself is flawed and/or sub-standard?

Has anybody really looked at and evaluated the DLC for what it is, rather than what they perceive it should be?

On..before I forget--I'm not for DTG, but I am for the same criteria to be extended to all providers when reviewing.

Simple review:
+route is good
+Class 323 model looks ok
-the class 323 sounds let it down.

There are essences of the 323's distinctive sounds but they cut in and out above 25mph. There doesn't appear to be any bogie run sounds, so some immersion is lost, as it doesn't sound like you are travelling at speed, as once power is cut, there is just a droning/buzzing sound. I have travelled on 323s for many years, this is not at all correct. It appears that something may have got lost in the sound mixing stage.

I do concur that it is a little disappointing that DTG struggle with sound mixing/developing sounds for their own product, when third party developers, such as AP can do this more successfully.

I am not sure I can name a UK unit that DTG have produced where I have found the default sounds to be acceptable. Sounds are an important part of an immersive experience. I haven't purchased DLC for a while for this very reason. DTG seem to be able to pull routes and stock models out of the bag, but in depth immersive sounds seem to elude them.

Steve

Ta Steve.

ste2002 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:38 pm Sounds are an important part of an immersive experience. I haven't purchased DLC for a while for this very reason. DTG seem to be able to pull routes and stock models out of the bag, but in depth immersive sounds seem to elude them.

Even though some aren't as bothered as others about the sounds there's no doubt that it is DTG's "weak point". However, a bundled stock item having "dodgy" sounds surely cannot mean that the whole package is only fit for the bin.
If the route's good there's nothing to stop those who simply can't stand to hear the 323 turning their speakers down, or swapping the 323 for the freeware version, or even swapping it for something else completely. There's also nothing stopping them from attempting to improve the existing sounds, or investigate utilising other sounds that may be applicable. Too many want it all for nowt though.

Enjoy the route, treat the 323 (all of the bundled stock in fact) as more of a bonus item and go from there.

I agree but in this case, the 323 is synonymous with the cross city route. It would be like having a tube line without any underground stock to run on it.

The route is perfectly usable if you ignore reality and just run 350's on it at present, until the sounds are fixed.

Steve

gptech wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:19 pm

smarty2 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:23 pm Aren't we all biased one way or another

Of course we are, and it could be claimed that it's obvious in this thread by the criticism from those who haven't bought the pack, nor seen/heard the stock in question first hand; but still they *know* (have been conditioned to think that way?) by an anti DTG bias.
It's interesting that you've linked to a patch for the OHLE, I didn't realise that that was tied in to the sounds used in the 323...could have seen a link to the passenger view I guess but not the wires....
..or are you now saying that the route itself is flawed and/or sub-standard?

Has anybody really looked at and evaluated the DLC for what it is, rather than what they perceive it should be?

On..before I forget--I'm not for DTG, but I am for the same criteria to be extended to all providers when reviewing.

Here here well said in your last paragraph.

Always amazes me how as soon as dtg post a screenshot to promote a route we automatically need an AP soundpack.

ste2002 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:27 pm the 323 is synonymous with the cross city route. It would be like having a tube line without any underground stock to run on it.

Definitely, if you're aware of that of course. So, if you are and simply can't/won't use the bundled 323 but wish to run something prototypical you still have the freeware 323 to try, and (heaven forbid anybody should ever have to put themselves out a bit!) attempting to improve/change the sounds of the bundled 323 are still options.

gptech wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:08 pm However, a bundled stock item having "dodgy" sounds surely cannot mean that the whole package is only fit for the bin.
If the route's good there's nothing to stop those who simply can't stand to hear the 323 turning their speakers down, or swapping the 323 for the freeware version, or even swapping it for something else completely. There's also nothing stopping them from attempting to improve the existing sounds, or investigate utilising other sounds that may be applicable. Too many want it all for nowt though.

Enjoy the route, treat the 323 (all of the bundled stock in fact) as more of a bonus item and go from there.

The 323s have worked this line from introduction in November 2007 and to have a train which is not fit for purpose is stupid.
I have never heard anyone say "nothing to stop those who simply can't stand to hear the xxx turning their speakers down" what is the point of the sound then?

You said "Too many want it all for nowt though" - sorry but the people with this route have just spent £22.49 - is that "nowt" in Yorkshire money?

There was a tv program from many years ago "Not the 9'o clock News" and one of the sketches was a musical number having a go at all the pop videos with a poor song.
If was called "Nice Video, shame about the song"

Which is a sort of description of this Route and train - from what I have seen it is a very nice route but it is let down by it's star performer

or are you now saying that the route itself is flawed and/or sub-standard?

I have not said that, the OHLE patch is by someone else and I posted it for the use or not of others, the route is an ok one imo its an average DtG route nothing outstanding or special, I certainly think that more attention to detail for their London offerings is obvious by the lack of landmarks in this route compared to the smoke, imo there are freeware routes out there that are much better than this payware route. Alan intimated that there are members on his team of route builders that would like to get their hands on the route and improve it, look forward to that if it is the case. Would also be cool if Xavier backdated the route.

@Peter, are you sure it was 2007? I'm reliably informed it was 1995 the 323's were fully introduced on the line.

I remember being on one during their introduction in 92 I think.

I wonder if we will see a Wolverhampton to Walsall via Birmingham New Street route to complete the 323 network. (They used to be used on Wolverhampton to Coventry via Birmingham services until the timetable change which saw them routed to Walsall instead of Coventry)

They weren't fully introduced until 95 because of reliability issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_R ... 0in%201995.

The person that was working on the freeware version included Walsall looked promising.