Atomic Systems

ashgray wrote: Your level of arrogance astounds me, even for you.

Come on Ash, you've known me long enough to know I'm the most arrogant b*****d on the planet.

ashgray wrote: I did however post how the issue could be fixed - it's not for me to circulate revised files

No. you didn't give details of what any edits were, or the procedure, just that you'd edited them--no help at all to those (Mt Hilly) who are self confessed *scripting clueless* users. There's no bother circulating revised files, as long as you don't give any product away for free, and of course if there's any doubt an email to the author/copyright holder would soon yield a yes or no. Are you really that clueless/looking for something to argue with me about that you didn't realise that?
I'd agree with you that dumping the player out of a scenario is a bit OTT, but scenario writers must retain the right to write scenarios in the manner they want---can I complain about all the *unplayable* scenarios I've run across because they use AP enhanced versions of stock I only have in the default form?
Of course not...if I can't run a scenario as supplied it's usually down to my choices and I have only 2 choices---delete the scenario or take steps to make it compliant with my collection. That's no different to what you've had to do with these scenarios.

Why on earth would you assume that I'd have any reason to pick an argument with you? I'm just reacting to what I'm given. With all that undoubted wisdom and intelligence, I'm surprised that you apparently haven't yet sussed that it's not necessarily what you say that counts or is remembered - it's the way you say it.

Back on track, If you'd bothered to read my post on page one properly, you'd have realised that I said:

you have to edit the file to remove just the Speeding sections.

Ash

ashgray wrote:Back on track, If you'd bothered to read my post on page one properly, you'd have realised that I said:

And if you read it you'd realise that you didn't give any details of what/where the unwanted instructions were, nor how to recompile them to .luac once edited (if needed)
Your post was not instructional, but merely observational. Post details of the edits, and exactly how to do them and I'll happily praise you for being the "bestest of the best".
And...Nick's extremely helpful and sage, being much better than anything I've ever written post that pointed you in the right direction did finish with...

On the other hand, drive sensibly and under the posted speed limit!

The real argument though, is that after playing a single scenario (according to his opening post) Hilly decided that EVERY scenario was broken--hardly enough evidence that there's a widescale problem. As it's been pointed out that the scenarios work if you stay under the speed limit they ain't broken!
In the real world 26mph might not matter if the line speed is 25mph, but the game doesn't have that latitude---it's computer based, it is or it isn't is how computers deal with data so it should be no surprise that at times it seems a bit harsh.

whatever...

Giving advice is not some sort of contest Gary. However, as being "right" and having the last word are obviously very important to you, I'm about to add you to my "Ignore " list, so you'll have one less member to tick off and play head prefect with in future. Humility isn't one of your strongest suits but I'm humble enough to realise that I still have much to learn about this sim - I'd rather learn it from somone else, it's not worth your asking price. Bye.

Ash

Bye Ash...take care

peterfhayes wrote:Just a thought! TS2020 is usually designated as a simulator (sic) and should represent what happens in the real world as far as possible.
If a rail driver in the real world exceeds the speed limit (even by the smallest margin) his train doesn't stop and he can't go on until he (virtually) gets back the depot and starts again!
Does a real driver get fined or admonished by exceeding the speed limit by a small degree - does anyone know.
DTG have never got the overspeed limits correct on some real UK rail routes there used to be (not sure if there still are) a sort of "margin of error' that allowed a slight speed over limit without penalty. Can you imagine keeping a steam loco at 5mph on all sorts of gradients and very often no speedo (Budgie smugglers in Oz)

BTW there are standard scenarios the fail you if you are late (JT do quite a few) and there are the dreaded Timetable scenarios (AP do a ton - or used to) that also fail you if you are late - not just career scenarios. So you have to drive like a demented Formula 1 driver to keep up on many of them. Avoid them like the plague or Covid-19!

pH

I think drivers do get fined, I remember on one of the Railscene cabride videos on the Cambrian Coast, the inspector was describing how he had been out with his speed gun, this was in the 80's.

I have travelled on several preserved railways and there are undoubtedly times where the 25mph speed limit is breached, a friend of mine sometimes takes his satnav on them and has recorded speeds over 25mph, not excessive but I am sure there are stretches of certain lines where trains may get up to 30mph.

I am not sure exactly how accurate everything is on TS1, I have been making some scenarios for the Riviera Line using the 1988 working timetable and the correct DMU timing loads, on the stoppers from Exeter to Paignton you have to set the timing in the sim at 95% between some of the stops to keep the accurate time in the sim to the WTT, the first generation DMU's weren't exactly quick off the mark so the drivers either must have ragged them or maybe the sim/route/stock isn't 100% accurate.

I think driving on preserved railways is the hardest as 25mph is all too easy to breach especially, personally I would possibly have set any limit a mile or two higher but as it would be very easy to get to 26mph without even realising it and I am sure in reality a lot of trains on preserved lines breach the 25mph limit occasionally, many locos don't have speedometers.

Peter

peterfhayes wrote:Does a real driver get fined or admonished by exceeding the speed limit by a small degree - does anyone know.

Around 2005 they started fitting OTMR (On-Train Monitoring Recorder) a black box
And all trains operating on Network Rail controlled infrastructure are required to be fitted with an event recorder complying with GM/RT 2472-2.

The information from the OTMR is downloaded when on the depot unless an incident requires an earlier download
And they record
Brake demand including operation of all Brake Controls and other brake activations
Power notch
Wheel speed
Speedometer, both signal sent to speedometer and indication displayed to driver
Automatic Warning System (AWS) operation
Driver reminder appliance (DRA) operation
Vigilance Operation
Passenger Emergency Systems (PES)
Override of any Safety System
Horn
Door signals
Door inter-lock
Wheel slide protection (WSP)
Tilt, if fitted
Speed supervision & Control, if fitted

Network Rail also has TPWS which apart from providing protection at Signals has them on plain line with Overspeed settings that will cause a Brake Application if going more then 2mph above speed limit
Depending on the TOC/FOC the penalties for overspeeding vary with the percentage of speeding

A driver bringing a Pendolino back from Euston to Longsight got the sack for overspeeding - but it was his third time of doing it.

Peter

The speed issue is a bit of a problem with Train Simulator, since attitudes towards it (and means of detection) have changed considerably over time; ideally it would be possible to have appropriate responses based on the era and location (I assume it varies considerably from country to country, and probably company to company too).

peterfhayes wrote:Just a thought! TS2020 is usually designated as a simulator (sic) and should represent what happens in the real world as far as possible.
If a rail driver in the real world exceeds the speed limit (even by the smallest margin) his train doesn't stop and he can't go on until he (virtually) gets back the depot and starts again!

In terms of preserved lines, I assume they still do but HMRI used to turn up in with a GPS and check drivers were being sensible. Can't remember the year but I remember the Mid Hants Rail getting fined as one turned up to a diesel gala and several trains were speeding, it was the time when that happened that the diesel galas stopped running for about 4 years or so before returning. Though by exceeding, I think it was more like locos were doing 40mph rather than 26-27mph.

I'm sure there are some leeway to account for locos with no speedometer's (steamers mostly) un-callibrated speedometer's etc.

Not naming the railway or loco, but I remember going on one at a location and listening to the track and the way it was shifting, I'd say this was doing a good 35mph, only briefly though!!

I think it might have been 2006.

There is certainly a tolerance on the real railway for overspeed, 2-3 mph. On older stock this sort of speeding can be caused by something as simple as thin tyres on the loco (i.e. wheels smaller than the speedo is calibrated to) and the driver is completely oblivious.

Until the turn of the 1990s BR had an internal policy permitting overspeeding by 3mph to aid recovering of time when late, for passenger trains. So adding these two issues together it would not be unreasonable to be driving 5-6mph over the limit at times.

For me I want to be able to recreate the experience of the SVR in my home (particularly as real life visits are currently impossible.) Legal or not, we’ve all experienced ‘fast runs’ - indeed they are some of the most memorable moments in my life, a particular experience over Eardington with the Jinty 47383 on a gala in the mid-90s has stuck with me for years - so it’s a pity if the scenarios are written in a manner which actively prevents this.

That being said, overall it is a very very good recreation of the route, which I was able to drive first time from memory including accurate location of speed restrictions. Well done SSS, and thanks!

Yes It might have been 2006, feels like it should have been more recent than that but time does fly!!

Having had a test spin to Bewdley from Kidderminster I think the Reverb sound effects could do with a fix, Echoes at Kidderminster Station, passed the rows of houses (though it does get loud there in reality IIRC), it echoes through the cutting to the tunnel, but then in the tunnel the reverb sounds end, and come back when you exit the tunnel and cross the bridge. Then there are small sections of reverb sounds in the open. That's all I can mention though, enjoying the look of it!

I found these overspeed limits back in 2013 (never found them again) and some applied to the London to Faversham HS Route, They were probably not universal for all UK routes.

Overspeed[edit] Wikipedia of the day?

A small amount of over-speed allowance is made before the train's emergency brakes are applied. At speeds below 80 km/h, the allowance is five kilometres per hour. At nominal speeds of 80–160 km/h, the tolerance is ten kilometres per hour and at speeds in excess of 160 km/h, it is fifteen kilometres per hour.

Speed and overspeed
So under 50 mph a 3mph limit was used ie 53 mph
50 - 100 mph a 6mph limit was used
Faster than 100 mph 9 mph limit was used
Seems more realistic

Peter 749 I don't know if you recall you commented on a post about this on the old Steam Forums? I think that you said (or similar) that simmers would still speed anyway even with over speed limits in place?

PeterH

Is anyone else having issues with the Pullman Connection and Pullman Departs scenarios?

At the start of both of them I get a screen full of large triangles in various shades of grey. They will go away if I change the viewing angle but come back at other viewing angles.

I've re-downloaded and re-installed the route and the Rebuilt Light Pacifics but it hasn't helped. I tried changing the loco to a non-Rebuilt Light Pacific but the triangles are still there.

So it appears there's something in the route that's causing them, not necessarily something actually included in the route download but possibly one of the other assets that the route refers to.

John.

johnbarron wrote:Is anyone else having issues with the Pullman Connection and Pullman Departs scenarios?

At the start of both of them I get a screen full of large triangles in various shades of grey. They will go away if I change the viewing angle but come back at other viewing angles.

I've re-downloaded and re-installed the route and the Rebuilt Light Pacifics but it hasn't helped. I tried changing the loco to a non-Rebuilt Light Pacific but the triangles are still there.

So it appears there's something in the route that's causing them, not necessarily something actually included in the route download but possibly one of the other assets that the route refers to.

John.

John

In my experience, these graphic glitches are often caused by corrupted RSDL assets, and the Isle of Wight route (which includes these) is a requirement of the SVR route. In the Steam client, untick the Isle of Wight route, then re-enter Steam and re-acquire it, so that a fresh copy is downloaded. Se if that fixes the problem.

Ash