Atomic Systems

Hello,

I am back to TS1 (alongside TSW) after not using it for over a year. Mainly for the steam content which I love driving, however there are some aspects of it vexing me a little. I don't know if it is me or are safety valves a little to eager?! Maybe it is my driving, I do use automatic fireman, for realism I feel a driver wouldn't driving and firing so this might cause some of the issues.

1) I was driving the wonderful Victory Works 61xx, with a light load admittedly of three coaches, on the Temsby workshop route. For the whole journey the safety valves were going off, even accelerating uphill. Apart from when the automatic fireman was putting water in the boiler, in fact a few times the boiler pressure was dropping as the injectors were putting water into the boiler, which is correct, yet as soon as I opened the regulator the boiler pressure went up again (surely not correct) and lo and behold the cacophony of safety valves could be heard once again!

2) I have the DT 4MT 2-6-4T with the SSS soundpack which is a great combination, however driving it on The Lakes branch workshop route the safety valves/boiler pressure seems to be on a constant loop, even when slogging up a 1 in 50 bank with six bogies in tow, where in other engines the boiler pressure would be dropping like a stone, on the mighty 4MT it was going up., Then the safety valves will come on, boiler pressure drops by about 15psi (I can't remember exactly) there is blissful silence of a few seconds as the boiler pressure rapidly goes up again, then on they go again to be repeated ad infinitum. Aside to this I noticed the motion of the 4MT flailing around up front which I have never noticed before, although it must be three years since I last drove it, I might delete it and reinstall it and see if that fixes it!

I do find the noise of the safety valves going off so regularly actually spoils the immersion of the sim especially when it is constant, to the point where I might have to stop driving certain locomotives as it isn't a pleasant sound. My poor cat agrees as she went off hiding !

If there was some way of disabling the safety valve feature without having to edit files I would as it is getting quite annoying.

Does anyone else have similar experiences or could anyone tell me if it is a fault with the simulator, these particular locomotives, me using the automatic fireman, my driving? Or is it indeed correct and this is how it was, I visit steam railways regularly and am sure that safety valves don't go off that regularly, mainly in stations and coasting down hill. Does anyone have any tips for a more peaceful driving experience? Any advice or if you have had similar experiences I would be glad to hear them.

Thanks in advance, Peter

IIRC the automatic fireman doesn't have control of the dampers so you can close them (shift + M) if you want to reduce the rate of steam production which should reduce the tendency for the safety valves to lift. You can see their state in the F5 display. If you're short of steam open them again (M).

Andy L

AndyUK wrote:IIRC the automatic fireman doesn't have control of the dampers so you can close them (shift + M) if you want to reduce the rate of steam production which should reduce the tendency for the safety valves to lift. You can see their state in the F5 display. If you're short of steam open them again (M).

Andy L

Great thanks Andy, I will try again with the dampers closed.

Peter

For the most immersive experience driving steam locos I do recommend you ditch the auto fireman and manual fire. That way you gain complete control over the engine, fire mass, water level etc.

Once you grasp the challenge it's a very rewarding experience and makes you realise how amazing the fireman and driver were in the steam era.

Graham

gwrdevon wrote:For the most immersive experience driving steam locos I do recommend you ditch the auto fireman and manual fire. That way you gain complete control over the engine, fire mass, water level etc.

Once you grasp the challenge it's a very rewarding experience and makes you realise how amazing the fireman and driver were in the steam era.

Graham

Hi Graham, yes you are probably right. I will give it a go.

It is shame there isn't a mode where you can fire but not drive so you can concentrate of firing without worrying about driving!

Peter

The ideal, in realsim terms anyway, would be to have an intelligent automatic fireman who could read the road, know the timetable etc so that the fire could be managed to meet the requirement for steam as the experienced hands used to do. Alternatively simulate a less experienced man who needed tips from the driver to tell him when to build the fire and when to ease off, that might be easier to implement but as the core of TS1 doesn't seem to be being developed further it's probably a vain hope.

Andy L

AndyUK wrote:The ideal, in realsim terms anyway, would be to have an intelligent automatic fireman who could read the road, know the timetable etc so that the fire could be managed to meet the requirement for steam as the experienced hands used to do. Alternatively simulate a less experienced man who needed tips from the driver to tell him when to build the fire and when to ease off, that might be easier to implement but as the core of TS1 doesn't seem to be being developed further it's probably a vain hope.

Andy L

Yes that would be ideal. It will be interesting to see how it is handled is TSW when steam eventually appears. I don't know how much further they could push TS1 in that way?

I have found a few interesting videos on Youtube about firing, so will give it a go tomorrow.

Peter

I'll second that. Driving's the easy bit. I don't use the HUD and the F5 readouts for anything except fire mass, preferring to use the gauges in the loco so manually firing on top of driving usually keeps me occupied all the time. I don't use the 'basic locos', poor sound really puts me off too.

To the OP - turn the auto fireman off, I had the same hesitation preferring to use it a while back, but I'd never go back now I fire manually. I'm not familiar with the loco from victory works you mention, however going off my experience with the BMG black 5....... (which I don't think has been bettered yet in terms of driving/firing experience although the Victory works 'Manor' product is rather good).

Firstly it depends on the route you're on. Is it the mainline or a preserved railway? The latter usually sees the start of a scenario with the loco 'overcoaled' with the valves going off and the boiler full. This isn't the state you'd have it coming off the shed in real life. Always keep some room in the boiler to use up some pressure if need be to avoid blowing off. But in a mainline scenario with use of the regulator and valve gear it's quickly overcome.

You are correct that use of the injectors reduces boiler pressure, the 'live' injector using much more pressure than the exhaust injector. One way to overcome the loss of boiler pressure whilst the injectors are on is to turn the blower on.
Opening the regulator can increase the boiler pressure but that's often down to the regulator/reverser setting and the incline from experience.

Keep the firebox doors closed if the valves are blowing off.
Open for stoking and then close. It really does make a difference on the black 5. Close one of the dampers too, that can have an effect.

Another trick that might help reduce the pressure is to leave the valve gear on a higher setting when cruising. This will use more coal & water though so again this depends on what type of route you're on and whether you can top up.

But fire manually, within the first 15 minutes even on a preserved line toddling along at 25mph you'll quickly be in control of the fire. Even keeping the loco ticking along nicely at 25mph on the 1 in 60 hills of the Dartmouth Steam railway takes experience.

hle19 wrote:I'll second that. Driving's the easy bit. I don't use the HUD and the F5 readouts for anything except fire mass, preferring to use the gauges in the loco so manually firing on top of driving usually keeps me occupied all the time. I don't use the 'basic locos', poor sound really puts me off too.

To the OP - turn the auto fireman off, I had the same hesitation preferring to use it a while back, but I'd never go back now I fire manually. I'm not familiar with the loco from victory works you mention, however going off my experience with the BMG black 5....... (which I don't think has been bettered yet in terms of driving/firing experience although the Victory works 'Manor' product is rather good).

Firstly it depends on the route you're on. Is it the mainline or a preserved railway? The latter usually sees the start of a scenario with the loco 'overcoaled' with the valves going off and the boiler full. This isn't the state you'd have it coming off the shed in real life. Always keep some room in the boiler to use up some pressure if need be to avoid blowing off. But in a mainline scenario with use of the regulator and valve gear it's quickly overcome.

You are correct that use of the injectors reduces boiler pressure, the 'live' injector using much more pressure than the exhaust injector. One way to overcome the loss of boiler pressure whilst the injectors are on is to turn the blower on.
Opening the regulator can increase the boiler pressure but that's often down to the regulator/reverser setting and the incline from experience.

Keep the firebox doors closed if the valves are blowing off.
Open for stoking and then close. It really does make a difference on the black 5. Close one of the dampers too, that can have an effect.

Another trick that might help reduce the pressure is to leave the valve gear on a higher setting when cruising. This will use more coal & water though so again this depends on what type of route you're on and whether you can top up.

But fire manually, within the first 15 minutes even on a preserved line toddling along at 25mph you'll quickly be in control of the fire. Even keeping the loco ticking along nicely at 25mph on the 1 in 60 hills of the Dartmouth Steam railway takes experience.

Hello, thanks for that very interesting and informative post.

I will definitely give manual firing a go, it sounds fun and immersive, and importantly once mastered I guess you are more in control.

I will try some leisurely freeroams over a fairly flat piece of track first.

I don't drive on the preserved lines that often, mainly the payware and a few freeware steam period routes.

Thanks,
Peter

theorganist wrote:

hle19 wrote:I'll second that. Driving's the easy bit. I don't use the HUD and the F5 readouts for anything except fire mass, preferring to use the gauges in the loco so manually firing on top of driving usually keeps me occupied all the time. I don't use the 'basic locos', poor sound really puts me off too.

To the OP - turn the auto fireman off, I had the same hesitation preferring to use it a while back, but I'd never go back now I fire manually. I'm not familiar with the loco from victory works you mention, however going off my experience with the BMG black 5....... (which I don't think has been bettered yet in terms of driving/firing experience although the Victory works 'Manor' product is rather good).

Firstly it depends on the route you're on. Is it the mainline or a preserved railway? The latter usually sees the start of a scenario with the loco 'overcoaled' with the valves going off and the boiler full. This isn't the state you'd have it coming off the shed in real life. Always keep some room in the boiler to use up some pressure if need be to avoid blowing off. But in a mainline scenario with use of the regulator and valve gear it's quickly overcome.

You are correct that use of the injectors reduces boiler pressure, the 'live' injector using much more pressure than the exhaust injector. One way to overcome the loss of boiler pressure whilst the injectors are on is to turn the blower on.
Opening the regulator can increase the boiler pressure but that's often down to the regulator/reverser setting and the incline from experience.

Keep the firebox doors closed if the valves are blowing off.
Open for stoking and then close. It really does make a difference on the black 5. Close one of the dampers too, that can have an effect.

Another trick that might help reduce the pressure is to leave the valve gear on a higher setting when cruising. This will use more coal & water though so again this depends on what type of route you're on and whether you can top up.

But fire manually, within the first 15 minutes even on a preserved line toddling along at 25mph you'll quickly be in control of the fire. Even keeping the loco ticking along nicely at 25mph on the 1 in 60 hills of the Dartmouth Steam railway takes experience.

Hello, thanks for that very interesting and informative post.

I will definitely give manual firing a go, it sounds fun and immersive, and importantly once mastered I guess you are more in control.

I will try some leisurely freeroams over a fairly flat piece of track first.

I don't drive on the preserved lines that often, mainly the payware and a few freeware steam period routes.

Thanks,
Peter

No problem. Was in the same boat months ago. Never driven steam in real life so it was totally new to me. The Dartmouth Steam railway (now on the workshop - it's worth checking out, the detail is excellent). is a good line to find feet on firing. One half is continously climbing a steep gradient, the other descending. Needs a good head of steam for half the journey, but not for the other half or the valves just blow off!

It's been well covered by everyone but it is really the limitation of an auto fireman who has no idea what's coming next so keeps you at maximum pressure the entire time, whereas the skill of a good fireman is to have steam when the journey needs it and keep the fire calm when it doesn't.
Not a direct comparison but imagine a car where you control the gears (and clutch) and brake, and the passenger controls the accelerator. Tricky but workable if both people know what they are doing and you travel the route every day. Except in this case your passenger has never seen the route, or the car, and is blindfolded and wearing ear defenders! His only chance to get you where you need to be is to keep his foot to the floor the entire journey - this is the auto-fireman