Atomic Systems

749006 wrote:It is a pain when you buy a route from B to C (Bristol to Cardiff) and they make what they call an "Extension" but in reality is the original route plus the new section.

So you'd prefer a stand alone route that you could add on yourself (if wanted) or leave as just the *extension* part?
Good luck adding a completely separate *extension* route to a shorter original yourself if so.

749006 wrote:And you end up with two versions of the core section.

Just like any merged route produced by TS users. Once you have an extended route, simply remove the original, shorter, route from the game--sure, you may have to edit the odd scenario if markers have had a name change (Platform 1 as opposed to platform 1 for example) but all the scenarios that worked on the short version will (admittedly, the word 'eventually' may have to apply here) work on the long one. The usual argument from fans of longer, duplicated/merged/added to routes is that you don't have to have every scenario running the full route when this *criticism* is levelled at the JT routes.

rabid wrote:30 miles
I hope too it’s priced appropriately !

What would you consider appropriate?...… One of the favoured routes of many UKTS members costs 25 quid for nearly 45 miles, and you'll read very few scathing comments about that. Yes, it comes with rolling stock; notably a tweaked version of something most of us will already have in 5 or 6 other packages---nowt new in *recycling* older assets.

gptech wrote:

749006 wrote:It is a pain when you buy a route from B to C (Bristol to Cardiff) and they make what they call an "Extension" but in reality is the original route plus the new section.

So you'd prefer a stand alone route that you could add on yourself (if wanted) or leave as just the *extension* part?

Seems to work with the JT Cornish Mainlines or the South Devon Route

gptech wrote:

749006 wrote:And you end up with two versions of the core section.

Just like any merged route produced by TS users. Once you have an extended route, simply remove the original, shorter, route from the game--sure, you may have to edit the odd scenario if markers have had a name change (Platform 1 as opposed to platform 1 for example) but all the scenarios that worked on the short version will (admittedly, the word 'eventually' may have to apply here) work on the long one. The usual argument from fans of longer, duplicated/merged/added to routes is that you don't have to have every scenario running the full route when this *criticism* is levelled at the JT routes.

You don't have every scenario running the full length of the route now - Bristol to Swansea only has a limited number of scenarios that run the full length.

I just wondered what was wrong with the JT Approach of having the "Extension" as just that without having all the route and assets again

Peter

gptech wrote:One of the favoured routes of many UKTS members costs 25 quid for nearly 45 miles.

Which one is that?

749006 wrote:

gptech wrote:One of the favoured routes of many UKTS members costs 25 quid for nearly 45 miles.

Which one is that?

I believe he is referring to Wherry Lines, which is a very good route. And that's 50% more than 30 miles and delivered at very high quality, with high quality stock and many scenarios.

However, I'm pretty sure that a poll that covered 'what is your favourite' route on here actually had WCML over Shap, WCML North and Rivieria in the 50's as the favourites, two of which are pretty long.

What we can deduce then, is that network-based routes that provide a variety of routes and operations are the most popular.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... rite+route

dave13 wrote:

roballen555 wrote:I have been on this line many times,,if you think JT have many tree's,this ( IRL ) has more,,another 30 odd mile route,why not go to Weymouth,logical stopping point ( 61 miles ) would have made more scence,,and the best scenic part of the route,is after Bournmouth,thru Poole and Dorchester,,another pushed out short route,30 min run ( passenger ) maybe a bit of freight at the docks,,come on DTG,a 61 mile run would have been better,,sigh.

The Bournemouth to Weymouth bit will probably be part 2 or something like that lol
What bugs me is its another route with class 444/450s why don't the do it with class 432/491 and class 33/1 instead?
Dave:)

I would like to see complete 432/491s in TS especially with this route. But I do have some 4cig conversions to make them act and look similar enough to a 4rep and 4tc. I may release them when this gets released (they are repaints and rw tools edits only though)

Iskra wrote:….Wherry Lines, which is a very good route. And that's 50% more than 30 miles and delivered at very high quality, with high quality stock and many scenarios.

agreed, lovely route, nice rolling stock and the addition of a nice new cab to the existing high quality Settle-Carlisle class 37 works very well. Plenty of scenarios, it's just a shame that UKTS members don't like linear, 'A to B' scenarios.....

The poll you linked to garnered 402 votes in total, hardly a number to give any real indication of what people wanted and was confined to only those routes available through Steam. However, Wherry Lines came 4th in the results (22 votes), being beaten by WCML-N and Riviera 50s by a single vote, and WCML over Shap *romped* home with 35 votes. I doubt any commercial producer built their business plan around it.

749006 wrote:Seems to work with the JT Cornish Mainlines or the South Devon Route

Dead easy to simply remove the MixMap, Terrain, Roads, Lofts and Scenerry Tiles for the *outside* areas to transform any route from a big one to a little one. What's harder is dealing with Tracks.bin---not impossible by any means, there's nothing to stop you doing it but not it's particularly cost effective from a business perspective when it would seem most TS users want the longer, extended routes...why else would there be so many posts along the lines of "I hope it can be tacked on to ….X,Y,Z..." whenever a new route is announced. Don't forget that JT routes tend to be the work of players rather than full time producers. These 'semi-pro' route builders are able, and willing, to justify that 2 or 3 hours one evening spent in producing the cut down variant.
Which JT routes do you have as stand alone rather than extending a base route?....it'd be interesting if you had a good look at the 2D map to confirm that there's just the stand alone track referenced, and also double check in the world editor that no 'ribbons' appear when you move the mouse over the area they would/could/should be in.

Amazing how much people know from an initial post about how much this will cost despite that information not been known. People only seem to like to compare with certain routes. Here is a fact. When dtg released the riviera line and class 143. How much was that. Oh that’s right allot less than £25 that people seem to be quick to mention.

gptech wrote:

Iskra wrote:….Wherry Lines, which is a very good route. And that's 50% more than 30 miles and delivered at very high quality, with high quality stock and many scenarios.

agreed, lovely route, nice rolling stock and the addition of a nice new cab to the existing high quality Settle-Carlisle class 37 works very well. Plenty of scenarios, it's just a shame that UKTS members don't like linear, 'A to B' scenarios.....

The poll you linked to garnered 402 votes in total, hardly a number to give any real indication of what people wanted and was confined to only those routes available through Steam. However, Wherry Lines came 4th in the results (22 votes), being beaten by WCML-N and Riviera 50s by a single vote, and WCML over Shap *romped* home with 35 votes. I doubt any commercial producer built their business plan around it.

<snipped>

A dose of reality would probably not go amiss here.

The number of people posting on the forums is only a small fraction of those reading the forums. Also, the last time I discussed this with the Site Admin the ratio of main-site users downloading stuff to forum users was something around 20:1

So any deductions and "facts" based on what is posted and voted on in these forums is not necessarily representative of reality. Hence the advice to tell DTG direct of your concerns / issues / wishlists.

So 20* more people visit the main-site and download stuff than read the forums. Of those who read the forums only around 10% actually post anything. A perfect echo chamber for views to become "facts".

I guess even DtG have succumbed to the reality that is "Shrinkflation"....

But as far as Pete's point goes it isn't unheard of, DtG did it with Portsmouth direct? Definitely Bristol Cardiff and the North Wales coast route So why not this one, perhaps they may go to Weymouth with another couple o' mile extension?

The length of this route doesn't really bother me, but surely it would have been logical to have done Woking - Southampton first, then on to Bournemouth and Weymouth? As extensions to the new PDL in a Western Mainlines fashion?

I'm not much interested in this route anyway. Yet another modern 3rd Rail route run with plastic boxes.
How many routes of this kind do we have now?
- Old PDL
- New PDL
- London to Brighton
- Chatham Mainline
- Medway Valley
- London to Faversham (Partially)
- North London Line (Partially)
- North London & GOBLin (Partially)
- Sheerness Branch
- South London Network

Those are just payware. I wonder how many pre-privatisation 3rd Rail routes we have?
- ???
- .
What a long list that is.

I like 3rd rail routes and most modern routes.I think it is a pity no one has has tried to modify photon's Waterloo to Wymouth and all it's off shoots. It covers the whole of the SWT franchise. A massive effort I know but it was done with his WCML Euston to Birmingham and look at the end result!!!!! Totally beyond my capabilities at 85 I'm afraid but the spade
work has been done.
Obviously his permission would be required.
Dumps

gptech wrote:..... when it would seem most TS users want the longer, extended routes...why else would there be so many posts along the lines of "I hope it can be tacked on to ….X,Y,Z..." whenever a new route is announced.

And that is the point - most people want longer routes but most people don't want a duplicate of what they already own

My question was and is, why cannot DTG create a true Extension to the route that already exists.
When JT built Western Mainlines did it have all the tiles and info in place for the extensions that can be bolted on to it?

Peter

Route length and A to B becomes less of an issue if a route has varied scenario potential or is particularly interesting. Wherry Lines had good detail, could host prototypical MU or loco hauled traffic of mixed types, had varied traffic patterns and two destinations. The semaphore signalling and points of interest made for an enjoyable and replayable route despite it's length. Western Mainlines traded detail for length, but also breadth - you don't have to run the whole length of the route (but the flexibility is there), and owing to the scope of the route could host all sorts of prototypical and fictional scenarios.

Southampton to Bournemouth *is* relatively short, but doesn't make up for that with varied scenario potential. What will be frustrating will be having Southampton and all it's freight facilities, it being served by many TOCs and types of trains, and not being able to use that potential because not a lot of that goes beyond Redbridge.

I'll re-state what I posted earlier: IMO, just extending this to include Eastleigh and the Romsey Loop, and even just out to Fareham (not Portsmouth as I put earlier) with the Botley line back to Eastleigh, would blow this wide open for a still relatively short but far juicier route.

Peter...to answer your last question very briefly...

Tracks.bin