Atomic Systems

Totally agreed. You can create your own scenarios and plenty of third party scenarios are created after EP's are released. We also must not forget that it is this business model that keeps AP alive and enables it to keep producing excellent stuff for a simulator that some other developers (DTG, Maik Goltz) have already almost given up on.

jpvdveer wrote:I think it's just a screenshot intended to showcase this particular livery.

Fair enough, thought it might be, never mind, thanks for replying

ashgray wrote: That's pretty strong stuff, Locomotiveman1994! Blackmail? Forced into buying products? Sorry, but that's just hilarious! You make AP sound like the mafia. Forget the fantasy and conspiracy theories and join the real world.

I might have chosen a bit strong words there.
Sorry for that.
Blackmail probably isn't the right word for it.
Got a bit heated up there...
But I hope everyone gets the point.
If DTG would release a route and say "you need loco pack xy and waggonpack z" peaple would "burn down the place".

The thing that makes me angry at AP is, that they update the old EP's scenarios to include new EPs. I don't think it's right. On the other hand I really love detailed scenarios with alot of diversity and, at least felt, accuracy. But why use the expensive EPs?
Especially when it makes no sence?
I mean... SSS for example. They have a lot of great EPs too, and they do not use them every time the release a scenario for new one. And their EP add more than just sounds and liverys. They also add headboards and headcodes, wich adds much to the realism of a scenario...

I actually think that it is great that they update their old stuff. That way the scenarios continue to be relevant well into the future, and become better and better over time. Of course they may also realise some additional sales that way. but there is just nothing wrong with that.

Squatch wrote:On a slightly different tack, on APs facebook page, there's a shot of a TPE liveried 68 dragging some yellow wagons around - I've had a brief look about, but could someone point me to this scenario (or is it just a screenshot)?

Ta!

It's just a screenshot and I don't have a scenario for it on WCML-TV but it replicates a real DRS train which sometimes gets a loco off maintenance.

The train is the Mountsorrel - Crewe Basford Hall and somebody got a picture going thru Leicester
https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1904/44 ... 58f0_b.jpg

Peter

jpvdveer wrote:….a simulator that some other developers (DTG, Maik Goltz) have already almost given up on.

A little unfair there surely? Maik's certainly got issues at the moment but these would seem to be more to do with his relationship with his associates than the game. Whichever, none of our business.
What makes you feel DTG have given up on the game?...it's only 4 months or so since we had a significant improvement to the core programming, 64bit support, which can hardly be described as the action a company that had 'given up' would follow.

gptech wrote:

jpvdveer wrote:….a simulator that some other developers (DTG, Maik Goltz) have already almost given up on.

A little unfair there surely? Maik's certainly got issues at the moment but these would seem to be more to do with his relationship with his associates than the game. Whichever, none of our business.
What makes you feel DTG have given up on the game?...it's only 4 months or so since we had a significant improvement to the core programming, 64bit support, which can hardly be described as the action a company that had 'given up' would follow.

I don't think he ment that DTG has given up on the game itself, but on certain content. Remember the DB V200 from the Euro asset pack and its bug with the taillight showing on the front end? DTG could have fixed that years ago. But they haven't. And that's where you could say that DTG has "given up" on.

locomotiveman1994 wrote:The issue is, quite shurely, AP. They are exaggerating. If you would only need a few additional packs to play a scenario, it would be ok, but no, it's: "here you get an EP, for wich you've spent a lot of money, but, hey, in order to play the included scenario, you'll have to buy everything else in our shop." That's like blackmailing peaple into buying your stuff! Especially, not everybody is aware of RWtools. I only realy came to know it reacently and I've still haven't figured out how to use it...

I'm not saying the EPs are bad, they are really great and add alot to the Sim, and I will happaly buy them, if they interest me. I just don't want to be forced to buy stuff I don't want.

I think you have forgotton those people who already oun the packs and are pleased to have new Scenarios to utilise them. No one is blackmailing anyone

FrankJ wrote:I think you have forgotton those people who already oun the packs and are pleased to have new Scenarios to utilise them. No one is blackmailing anyone

I know. I've already been pointed out to the fakt that my choice of words was unfortunate.
It's just... not everybody owns the packs needed. And for those who do, you could simply make scenario packs...

gptech wrote: A little unfair there surely? Maik's certainly got issues at the moment but these would seem to be more to do with his relationship with his associates than the game. Whichever, none of our business.
What makes you feel DTG have given up on the game?...it's only 4 months or so since we had a significant improvement to the core programming, 64bit support, which can hardly be described as the action a company that had 'given up' would follow.

On Maik - he has stated on the German forum that he is unlikely to work on any further TS routes and that he will switch to TSW as soon as the editor is available. He has already spent a lot of time on the Unreal Engine during the last 12 months. He may of course still do the odd TS project, but does seem almost to have given up on this. He has made it clear that he is happy to take the risk of switching to TSW - this could pay off handsomely for him but of course could also backfire.

On DTG - yes they have released 64-bit, but that's close to all. Otherwise they seem to limit themselves in large part to issuing a small number of route extensions every year that they can then bundle together in the next TSXX franchise. I am pretty sure that this will be the case for the Llandudno - Holyhead extension, which is highly likely to feature in TS2020. By having a new TS2020, TS2021 etc. every year, the old TS continues to look "current", which will make people more confident to continue to buy TS DLC. The old TS continues to be a "cash cow" for DTG, they are happy to milk this and DTG engage in piecemeal developments for TS in order to facilitiate this. Otherwise, they by all means have given up on the old TS - I would not be surprised if most of their development efforts are now on TSW. Virtually all of the 25 or so most recent Steam releases are now third-party products, not DTG's.

As a result, in the UK at least, it is now primarily AP which is driving the old TS forward - which is just great.

jpvdveer wrote:The old TS continues to be a "cash cow" for DTG, they are happy to milk this

As has been stated many times by many people, DTG are a business like any other, so obviously they'll make as much from what they have. Using your school of thought AP could also be described as 'miking it' as much as possible---sound pack shortly followed by enhancement pack; that's how the commercial world works.

jpvdveer wrote:Virtually all of the 25 or so most recent Steam releases are now third-party products, not DTG's.

What's so wrong with that? don't you want DTG to allow 3rd parties to produce addons and distribute them through Steam--the little guys win, getting maximum exposure; DTG win, they can concentrate on the bigger jobs; WE win, the more choices we have the better.

gptech wrote:What's so wrong with that? don't you want DTG to allow 3rd parties to produce addons and distribute them through Steam--the little guys win, getting maximum exposure; DTG win, they can concentrate on the bigger jobs; WE win, the more choices we have the better.

On Maik - he has stated on the German forum that he is unlikely to work on any further TS routes

Well, has he given up on the extension to the Konstanz Villingen route? I was really looking forward to that.

locomotiveman1994 wrote:[The thing that makes me angry at AP is, that they update the old EP's scenarios to include new EPs..

There are two possible solutions

1. AP does not release Any Scenarios for new releases - this will upset some and won't bother others.

2. AP gives us the option to install the Scenario or not - currently it's all or nothing

Peter

749006 wrote:2. AP gives us the option to install the Scenario or not - currently it's all or nothing

If you simply use the installer, yes.....but if you point it to your desktop (for example) you can then just copy & paste what you want into the game.