Atomic Systems

Well, I certainly didn't want to start all this. Again, I am fully aware of the fact I can simply swap it with RWTools, no problem with that. It's just that the previous WL Class 68 scenarios required the Perkins pack, I bought it solely for that purpose so I would expect this new pack to use the same. It does not and I am disappointed. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Otherwise I always praise all AP's add-ons and I am sure that this time it will be no different when I finally get the new class 68 pack. Howgh.

Sometimes the scenario writers go overboard with assets that require AP Sound packs.
When it's the player train this makes sense as the player gets the most enjoyment from it.
But when a lot of other trains also use the AP version - some of which are passing at speed or just stood in a station is, to me, a bit pointless.

And RW Tools does not always play ball when you are swapping the AP version for the default version.

Peter

IronBidder wrote:

gptech wrote:So the bottom line advice seems to be "take control of what gets put in your working copy of the game" ?

Or be able to revert back to earlier versions if you don't like what's been auto installed.

Which is essentially having some sort of control over what's been installed.

jstange wrote:Otherwise I always praise all AP's add-ons

Whether they're good or bad? (OK, it's pretty much accepted that AP enhancements to rolling stock are beneficial to the driving experience of those choosing to install them, but every change to anything in the game has potential to introduce *less desirable" effects)

749006 wrote:when a lot of other trains also use the AP version - some of which are passing at speed or just stood in a station is, to me, a bit pointless.

being an observation many have made recently, leading to the use of "non-AP enhanced" stock used for AI consists by those observers.

749006 wrote:And RW Tools does not always play ball when you are swapping the AP version for the default version.

Mike's identified an issue with RW Tools that may account for that Peter, https://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic ... 0#p1852430, but there are other reasons why a scenario may be *uneditable*--- a rolling start or a scenario of the "wait for the train to arrive then take over" kind can both be awkward to edit so not all issues with editing can be attributed to either RW Tools or the AP stock. We have to deal with these things on a scenario by scenario basis.

749006 wrote: But when a lot of other trains also use the AP version - some of which are passing at speed or just stood in a station is, to me, a bit pointless.

To me it actually adds a great deal. The added value of using AP versions on AI trains is surely less than for the player train, but it is certainly not pointless. Take a South Wales Coastal scenario with a player train standing for 5 minutes at Cardiff so some time to look around - it is such cases great for AI trains also to be using the AP versions. One of the great benefits of 64-bit TS is to make this possible to an even greater extent than was the case previously. Moreover, AP versions are, given that they already include a plethora of liveries, more user friendly than stock where users need to install repaints themselves.

jpvdveer wrote:it is such cases great for AI trains also to be using the AP versions.

Why?....other than the ease of installation of the liveries you mention what does an AP enhanced item add to the playability? Are you just admiring the improved sounds, as none of the functional improvements will be evident to just an observer.

jpvdveer wrote:One of the great benefits of 64-bit TS is to make this possible to an even greater extent than was the case previously

Certainly...if you've the PC 'grunt' to handle it all--but 64bit TS will not make a weak PC any more powerful. Peter's point, and it's one others have expressed, is that too much added scripting/resource hungry textures etc can actually reduce the enjoyment of the playing experience.
Of course AP will feature their products, just as any other provider would, but freeware scenario writers could/should be mindful that the game is run on a wide range of PCs and not everybody has the resources to cope with lots of advanced stock.

gptech wrote:...but freeware scenario writers could/should be mindful that the game is run on a wide range of PCs and not everybody has the resources to cope with lots of advanced stock.

THAT is the scenario creators decision. Nobody elses. If a creator decides to use a lot of AP stock, he is free to do so. Just as you are free to not dowload it, if you are not happy with the amount of enhancements used.

Hear we go again,AP v None AP,,its a matter of taste,if you play TS as a sim,you want it to run as smooth as possible,,so leave out AI that's AP stock,some AP stock DOES slow TS down,if there is too much,,if you don't mind a few FR drops and stutter ( sometimes ) ok use AP stock to your hearts content,,but remember,AP stock has more in cab ( scripting etc ) than outside so AI wont look much different,may sound a bit and look better,but that's all.
I have a fair amount of AP stock,sounds and a few EP packs,where I thought it added to the game,but don't have them all,some are not so good ( sorry AP folk,just my opinion ).. The only gripe I have with AP,to run the scenario's that come with stock,you need loads of their stuff to run them,,so you have to go to workshop for scenario's, more and more are using AP EP packs,,but some scenario makers are giving you a None AP scenario as well,,i commend this as great stuff from the maker,may more and more do that,,not all of us have ALL AP stuff,,none AP scenario's get as many thumbs up as AP one's,,thanks for them that do it.
As for re-skins,,learn how to put them on yourself,its not hard once you get the hang of it,,or if your lazy,let AP do it for you lol.

Happy siming,AP and none AP folks,,its a game,not a life changer,,enjoy it.

gptech wrote: Are you just admiring the improved sounds, as none of the functional improvements will be evident to just an observer

The sounds are definitely the most important part. Put an array of AP-enhanced DMUs in Cardiff and the result is just overwhelming. In addition there is also the consistency in terms of the (high) quality of the liveries, though I appreciate that carefully chosen third-party reskins can achieve a similar effect.

locomotiveman1994 wrote:THAT is the scenario creators decision

Absolutely, I've many times defended their right to do so which is why I used "could" in my post.

locomotiveman1994 wrote:you are free to not dowload it, if you are not happy with the amount of enhancements used.

Personally it doesn't bother me what stock a scenario uses, I'm no stranger to swapping things with RW Tools.

roballen555 wrote:The only gripe I have with AP,to run the scenario's that come with stock,you need loads of their stuff to run them

Not really Rob, all you need is RW Tools to swap out the stuff you don't have with stuff you do. You can't expect AP to anything else but use their products, that's how businesses work. That of course is dependant on you not being hit by the 'stock will not swap' issue which Peter has mentioned.

Hi,gptech,,yup had that a couple of times with RW-Tools,unable to change,and sometimes even when I can change loco or stock,it booms-out on me,,but if the scenario does have AP stock,i don't have,i just don't download it,,no problem,i have many many scenario's,enough to keep me going for month's,,i don't mind AP stock,just the price,,but that's me being mean lol.

I personally love this pack! The only issue's that i have with it, is that there are no AAR sockets on the Chiltern liveried examples, not sure if this is something that could have been done as a child object and selectable, like the high intensity headlight on the Class 31 EP, but i am not a modeller, so....pass!

Also, has anybody tried using it pushing a Chiltern set, driving from the DVT? I can't for the life of me get the taillights to set on the 68, without the headlights coming on at the coach-end of the loco, and the engine stays idle when applying power, but the traction motor noise increases. Maybe its a limitation of the model but , there you go. Overall though, i'm impressed.

Cheers
Terrone.

The issue is, quite shurely, AP. They are exaggerating. If you would only need a few additional packs to play a scenario, it would be ok, but no, it's: "here you get an EP, for wich you've spent a lot of money, but, hey, in order to play the included scenario, you'll have to buy everything else in our shop." That's like blackmailing peaple into buying your stuff! Especially, not everybody is aware of RWtools. I only realy came to know it reacently and I've still haven't figured out how to use it...

I'm not saying the EPs are bad, they are really great and add alot to the Sim, and I will happaly buy them, if they interest me. I just don't want to be forced to buy stuff I don't want.

On a slightly different tack, on APs facebook page, there's a shot of a TPE liveried 68 dragging some yellow wagons around - I've had a brief look about, but could someone point me to this scenario (or is it just a screenshot)?

Ta!

I think it's just a screenshot intended to showcase this particular livery.

locomotiveman1994 wrote:The issue is, quite shurely, AP. They are exaggerating. If you would only need a few additional packs to play a scenario, it would be ok, but no, it's: "here you get an EP, for wich you've spent a lot of money, but, hey, in order to play the included scenario, you'll have to buy everything else in our shop." That's like blackmailing peaple into buying your stuff! Especially, not everybody is aware of RWtools. I only realy came to know it reacently and I've still haven't figured out how to use it...

I'm not saying the EPs are bad, they are really great and add alot to the Sim, and I will happaly buy them, if they interest me. I just don't want to be forced to buy stuff I don't want.

That's pretty strong stuff, Locomotiveman1994! Blackmail? Forced into buying products? Sorry, but that's just hilarious! You make AP sound like the mafia. Forget the fantasy and conspiracy theories and join the real world.

AP's product pages clearly state what other add-ons are required in order for a specific pack to work, so anyone contemplating buying it is aware before they part with their money. So how exactly do you consider they force you to buy?

Ash