Interesting development?

[Devon91]

For those who like me are on the fence with subscribing,this press release goes some way to answering questions surrounding the site:

https://alanthomsonsim.com/?page_id=226 ... zBTqFPe720

[gptech]

I think it raises many more too....

We are committed to the concept of ‘freeware is freeware’ and therefore do not charge for access to the vast majority of files on the site.

So when is "freeware" not really "freeware"? call it a membership fee, subscription or a compulsory donation for access to certain items, but money is exchanged to be able to obtain that "freeware". We've already seen one commercial developer take exception to that kind of action.

whilst some may be subscriber for their testing phase

So we/you/they pay for the privilege of becoming Beta testers?

I would love to find I'm being overly negative and sceptical, but there's an odd 'feel' to all this.

[Devon91]

It does certainly seem hard to justify it really,considering that people are paying simply to get the route early (beta test).

The other side of this is that if they were to change to charge for the merged routes altogether I can imagine commercial developers (Creative are notoriously strict?) having something to say about that considering that no matter what anyone says,the route is their property (a section of it)

[TheCatOfWar]

So when is "freeware" not really "freeware"? call it a membership fee, subscription or a compulsory donation for access to certain items, but money is exchanged to be able to obtain that "freeware". We've already seen one commercial developer take exception to that kind of action.

Hi gptech, you could say there are three types of content the site will host;

Freeware - Free to download for everyone at full speed, zero money exchanged. Good old classic freeware.

Subscription-Only - The user needs to buy a subscription to access it, and the developer gets a cut of those proceeds. This could be permanent or a timed thing, like you say early access to routes before they are released as freeware to all.

Payware - The user buys the item individually and the developer gets the money the site gets a cut in return for the hosting (much in the same way something like Steam works etc)

It's totally up to the developer which category they want their content to fall in to, or have some arrangement such as a route being freeware but with extended version available to subscribers.

Hope this clears it up!

[jpvdveer]

Whilst I am still not likely to subscribe, I do find that there’s a good chance of things ultimately becoming better with this new site. As the press release rightly points out, the current UK landscape is highly fragmented with a plethora of sites and, as a result, it being very difficult to keep track of everything. The UK situation stands in marked contrast to other railsim countries which do have a convenient one-stop shop. UKTS does have a good stock of freeware but lacks a good business model - either you pay or face long queues and endless downloads (and in event a rather old and tired looking site). By the looks of it, Alan’s business model does have the potential of being better and ultimately more successful - users will be able to download everything at high speed, without queues and at no cost, but subscriptions will also be attractive to at least some users due to a variety of interesting incentives being provided.

[Devon91]

Whilst yes,that is a point ref bringing people together. However,it's quite possible that developers don't want to go to the Alan Thomson site. I do agree it's a fantastic way of bringing together the newer/less established developers,I can't see it actively bringing together bigger developers to work together really,because they are their own entity,they don't necessarily exist "for the community" (their own fanbase perhaps),and beyond that Alan is a community in himself,much like UKTS is a totally different community.

I just don't see the aim/goal of trying to bring everyone together really,as realistically it's just not going to win the independent and influential developers on board,actively anyway,of course they'll come on board much like JT seem to have in terms of selling their addons via the website,but that's not exactly coming together,that's just JT doing what they would do for other prospective companies looking to sell their work? I do see it as been a new world UKTS in terms of allowing people to come together to do what they want,but there's a number of unanswered questions still,particularly surrounding exactly what an experienced user not interested in the beta testing and/or installer is getting for their money,as to me it looks like there's a lot of stuff that has previously been available free or at least cheaper? (Bristol to Birmingham Extended). It has also been stated that the other items (routes in the future) will be available separately to non-subscribers but at a heightened price. It is all just a bit hard to understand really,even having followed a number of Alan's live streams it is still a bit puzzling.

[dingerb]

so he puts freeware onto his site,all in order easy to find and quick to download? some other things! that at the moment we know little about or just what is so good you must pay £30! per year for. still yet to be trumpeted just what it all entails.
lets start,well reskins one or two per say every 6 months?average user. route add-ons.the guy that's done the Bristol-South Wales-Birmingham and the WCML LINK UP. to get his so called extra's cost a donation. (fine the amount is small for now)who now I understand, will be putting his stuff on the A/T site?
UKTS a vast array spanning many T/S and other genre.again small price for fast access.
Vulcan. DPS.Whatawally.and the routes they host ask for small donations.
you have the choice! either subscribe and pay £30 for ATs site and extra's.or stick with whats put to general freeware.
what doe's bother me is how will those unable to afford it, or youngster's find £30 a pop for what in the end should be freeware! will those who make the stuff see A/T. who states he will pass on part of his subscriptions to makers,then see that as a way to earn a few bob for doing so?
I'm still to be convinced this is the way to go!!!---------

[gptech]

the current UK landscape is highly fragmented with a plethora of sites

"Poor man want to be rich
Rich man want to be king
And a king ain't satisfied
Till he rules everything"

(Bruce Springsteen, Badlands)

Are you really advocating that a single site be the repository of all there is for the game?

[jpvdveer]

Actually yes. For new German freeware I only need to monitor railsim.de. For new Dutch stuff only treinpunt.nl, etc. etc. But for new UK stuff...

[SkylineBoy]

Actually yes. For new German freeware I only need to monitor railsim.de. For new Dutch stuff only treinpunt.nl, etc. etc. But for new UK stuff...

Meaning some long standing sites that have been around for years would have to close just to put everything in one place?

I'd wager that it would possibly have been UKTS if it wasn't for the way the download area is handled, nobody would have had a need to take their stuff elsewhere. But that is a completely different topic.

[jpvdveer]

That’s right and that clearly will not happen overnight. I do think though that UKTS will end up becoming less attractive and that some developers will, assuming they can, slowly but surely start moving to Alan’s site. First signs of this are already happening. Once Alan’s site obtains a critical mass, this process will only accelerate.

By the way I don’t think UKTS is really a different topic here - much of this “mess” is a direct consequence of how UKTS have chosen to do things.

[gptech]

who states he will pass on part of his subscriptions to makers

A portion of the monthly income from subscriptions is allocated to the payback scheme and then shared between the creators hosting subscription products with us at the time.

We allocate a minimum of 80% of the first months portion of all new subscriptions and then up to 20% of the remaining subscription spread over the remaining months.

I don't think there's any question about whether monies will be distributed, but I feel many "freeware" creators will go into this expecting a night out every month from it. There were some example figures on the site the other week, and if anybody did the sums using those figures then the return per download was 50p. OK, they may have been numbers just plucked out of thin air to make a sentence, but if so if does once again illustrate how (in the eyes of many) "half ársed" the venture has been marketed/publicised.
If this is a commercial venture, then surely the costs involved should be met by the sales of the commercial items being sold, and not reliant on the subscriptions fees?
The IP address for the site is reported as 104.27.144.119 (run tracert alanthomsonsim.com from a DOS prompt on your own PC, nothing secret about that information) which is an address hosted by Cloudflare.com. Their "Business" hosting package is $200/month (about 150 quid) to give some idea of the costs involved--and of course that may not be how the site is hosted, it could use a more expensive bespoke package. Certainly a significant cost so he has to be applauded for giving the idea a go, but like all commercial ventures it will have to 'carry it's own weight'.

[SkylineBoy]

That’s right and that clearly will not happen overnight. I do think though that UKTS will end up becoming less attractive and that some developers will, assuming they can, slowly but surely start moving to Alan’s site. First signs of this are already happening. Once Alan’s site obtains a critical mass, this process will only accelerate.

By the way I don’t think UKTS is really a different topic here - much of this “mess” is a direct consequence of how UKTS have chosen to do things.

Well that is a strange attitude to me. Vulcan Productions have been around for years and are growing. DPS even longer I think? They provide free content and should be supported, not have their obituary written.

[Devon91]

I think to expect the established developers such as DP Simulation,Backdated Trainsim and others such as Vulcan Productions to "move" to Alan's site is pie in the sky,these developers have spent many years building their own label and I'd frankly be amazed to see them fully move to a site under the name of a man,rather than something generic (like UK Trainsim for instance). As I said previously,yes,smaller developers that are just one user I can see going to Alan's site,partly for the attention and partly for their work to be seen widely in a place that is easy to manage and use,but I just don't forsee the bigger developers (some are businesses in their own right) moving over for the good of Alan's community,support it,yes,moving,doubtful.

[Easilyconfused]

A little history lesson might not go amiss. The current UKTS business model is not the one the site started with. When I joined the premium members had fast downloads and the non-premium bandwidth was released at 19:00 GMT for the evening feeding frenzy. When the allocated amount of bandwidth was used up that was that as far as I recall - wait until the following evening. Some nights it was exhausted in less than 45 minutes. Great for UK people who worked office hours but not a great situation for US based people or those down-under.

Matt spent considerable time and effort reworking it so non-premium could download any time subject to the queues and speed restrictions. All that bandwidth has to be paid for. More money and effort has been poured into the non-premium members over the years than the facilities for premium members. We have seen members have long threads about buying a new PC and speccing it out coming well into 4 figures and then baulk at paying £3 for a month's membership during which time they could practically download the entire library.

The site is due a face-lift and rehosting very soon. A number of people have spotted the live mock-up of the new site which will be easier to maintain.

Some developers chose to either remove their work or not upload it at all here due to arguments in the forums and in some cases forum bans or disciplinary actions taken against them since they are subject to the same rules as everyone else.

The position always has been if the site becomes nonviable then the shutters will come down.