Atomic Systems

Hello all,

Anyone built a scenario on WCML v5 that has noticed it is extremely laggy around Euston? I noticed flying around from Wembley was fine but as soon as I hit Camden onto the Euston tile bang, it lags like no tomorrow, even just typing a service name is slow, as is just trying to move around.

I quit and went to the content foler and renamed the mixmap, network and scenery folders to .bak, that way it would clear everything and I could try it bare. Sure enough around Birmingham (start of scenario) FPS was very high, no scenery or track just ground.

So went to Euston, again no scenery, track, only 2 class 390 AI's visible, and it was STILL extremely laggy

Yet if i press the orange 'play' button, FPS is perfect

So what on earth is causing the heavy lag ONLY in the editor?? We can rule out scenery as I say having tried that trick, it's heavily laggy with nothing but the ground!

Anyone come across this in v5? I dont remember having this in earlier versions though I can't remember

in a few area's around Camden and also in Primrose tunnel and up towards Brent, i was getting lagging.
I did, a clear cache and also I use Rosgar's Junk Removal tool. File ID : 29859
that seemed to help stop the stutters! whats the cause? I have no idea.

Will have a try at using that tomorrow, thank you very much!

Did you find it fine in the driving mode? As I say the stutter only seemed to happen when in the editor in that area, flying around free roam in driving mode had no issues at all!

Just tried that and it's still very bad.

I must try it empty, I can only assume it's because of the amount of AI on the map, but still it's only Kilburn to Euston that badly suffers so I don't know, just an assumption but if that was the answer, why is it only that area that suffers and only in the editor.

The puzzle remains!

Well 64 bit won't even run the scenario I just get a error

D:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\RailWorks\TempDump\

Exception Code: 0xC0000005

Exception Info: ACCESS VIOLATION

Please contact our Customer Support Team at https://dovetailgames.kayako.com


Run it in 32 bit and don't get the error message, ut it can't handle it and is laggy throughout, I guess making a Birmingham to London scenario with realistic AI is only for super PC's

Might have to put this scenario to the side, spent a good 3 days making this but is a shame for it to be unplayable really

tubemad wrote:Well 64 bit won't even run the scenario.....................…
............….Run it in 32 bit and don't get the error message, ut it can't handle it and is laggy throughout,

Usually, if a scenario won't run in 64bit it won't in 32, particularly if it involves a crash. Once the files are written to disc they're the same files that both versions of the game read so any *errors* in those files would affect both.

tubemad wrote: I guess making a Birmingham to London scenario with realistic AI is only for super PC's

Not really; you may have to juggle the timings to prevent services passing in the busier areas of the route to keep the total load on the PC at a manageable level, but you really shouldn't need anything more than reasonably capable kit to have a fairly high level of authenticity. The area you're having bother in is pretty 'busy' from an asset number viewpoint---6 main running lines, with OHLE and/or 3rd and 4th rail lofts; loads of sidings etc with OHLE; lots of platform lofts; lots of track markers; lots of signals.....the price we have to pay for running routes in urban areas I guess. Wembley to Willesden was always a slightly tough area to get through, I know Andy's done a lot of work around there to rationalise things and keep the load down as much as possible.
As a quick test, go to your

..Content\Routes\cf441eea-da21-4e1e-8abb-1545ac3ef0b6

folder and rename the Scenery folder to SceneryX

Try the scenario in both 32 and 64bit and see if taking that load down a touch allows the scenario to at least load. From there you may be able to identify what needs tweaking a smidgen. If you want to send a copy of it over for testing I'll gladly do so, as you've stated it'd be a shame to have spent time on it for it to end up being shelved.

Gary,

Yes I didn't really do any performance testing, I just built it knowing that I did a long Birmingham to London on v4 and apart from Wembley I had no FPS issues, but this time seems to be worst.

I can confirm I got it loading no trouble in 32 bit, I tried it 3 times on 64 bit and got the same error. Cleared Cache, adjusted sliders, still got the error. Tried it again in 32 bit, no problems at all

In 32 bit at Birmingham (2 AI trains and player train in the area, that's all) it sticks at 15fps, but is much more slower than that. It's 3 minutes loading time but in real time it's a bit longer, as it's 1 sim second = 3 seconds real time.

I'll have a go at that Scenery folder trick and see what happens.

EDIT

Just tried it with the Scenery folder re-named, and it loads in 64-bit. Still lagging somewhat at Birmingham New Street. I guess it's because I'm driving the AP Class 350 and there's a DTG Virgin Class 390 leaving the station? With that happening I now get 14FPS, and time is slightly faster

tubemad wrote: I guess it's because I'm driving the AP Class 350 and there's a DTG Virgin Class 390 leaving the station?

That the updated DTG Pendo?.... if you have the original it may be less demanding, it has been noted that some experienced a resource hit with the new model, so dropping back to the original (certainly for AI) could be a help. Just for fun, try the Thomson 350 too---that's still fairly heavily scripted but doesn't need other Provider/Product pairings loaded or referenced.

I myself have done a realistic run, mine is 9G35 1723 London Euston to Birmingham New Street, with full times, and the only issue I have is between Willesden & Wembley due to the large yard/track database plus loft items including catenary, plus static stock I have placed down. But its not a breaker.

You say realistic times so I'm going to assume your using 390 Pendolino, which one are you using, the original S9BL or DTG model? If its the DTG one then I'm going to bet that thats where your problem lies.

I have found when making the above mentioned scenario that if I had acouple of these down my frame rates dropped like you described. My way round was to just use the older model for AI and the new one for the player service.

RobertM wrote:which one are you using, the original S9BL or DTG model? If its the DTG one then I'm going to bet that thats where your problem lies.

I've just done a very quick and very unscientific test (though I did repeat it 3 times so the results aren't a 'one-off') driving an 8 car 350/2 formation from just outside New St into platform 1a. About 20 seconds after the player train stops a 9 car 390 departs from platform 5.

Using the original 390 the frame rates through New St are in the low 30s; with the newer model this drops to mid 20s or a drop of around 25%. OK, I've the hardware to deal with that, but there were no other services involved in the test, so scale it up to a *real* scenario with more services to load and it could be a much more significant drop. Shove weaker hardware into the equation and it becomes very likely that the 390 is a very significant part of the root cause. I don't have the AP 350 to run a test using that, do you have it Robert to be able to test just for the sake of completeness?

Yes I purchased the DTG version for the features and livery, so just used that for every 390 AI and 5 on static at Euston (and that took a while with the lag around there in the editor)

I believe the 350 isn't supposed to be too heavy, although equally I could use the Thompson one for AI, I'll just download RW-tools in a moment and swap the 390's with one of the default ones and give it a test

Right I think I might try making another one which I was going to do afterwards anyway using the old 390 and Thompson 350 for AI only and seeing how it goes.

I've just tried RW-Tools but I've broke it like I've broken everything recently I tried to swap the Virgin DMSO with the older IC model, and 'Swap all in same consists' just crashes RW-Tools, so I tried to do one consist at a time and saving it, and when I go back in to check it it's returned to the Virgin one again. If I swap just one DMSO in One consist and save, then exit and go back to view the change, it hasn't changed it, it's back to the Virgin one again
Bear in mind it DOES change it to DMSO IC once I've pressed the swap button, but once I've saved the changes and it's confirmed it's updated the scenario file, I go back to check it and it hasn't swapped the item at all.

If someone else wishes to try and change them then I can send you the scenario file, but to be honest it might just be easier if I build the next one I was going to do from Euston to Birmingham with the older stock, then if that works it might just be easier to re-write the Birmingham to Euston scenario, as there is a mix of 9 and 11 car consists to do.

Seems to be a broken month, if it's not that I can't get this to work, it's also the fact I've managed at the workplace to break the Henry hoover, a light switch and the pressure washer!

tubemad wrote:If someone else wishes to try and change them then I can send you the scenario file

Yeah...let's have a look, I'm intrigued now. It's not a "rolling start" type scenario is it?

tubemad wrote:there is a mix of 9 and 11 car consists to do.

No problem, Peter (749006) and myself sorted out F and U coaches for the older model to replicate 11 car sets some time back.

tubemad wrote: I guess making a Birmingham to London scenario with realistic AI is only for super PC's

I don't have a super PC, was quite high spec but now TS2019 is more demanding, mine now is under recommended specs on CPU 2.70 Quad, runs fine apart from lags a little as CPU struggles send data to GPU where scenary is dense, I have done a few scenarios using lots of quite demanding stock class 313,321,90 and AP mark 2 along with 47,57,86,87,92,150, the only time Euston lags is when I place lots of AI in nearly every platform, think the problem could be the class 390 as it uses a lot of resources I have heard as I don't have the new version, if you have the old one I would recommend using the old one for AI traffic, I have found a similar problem with Waterloo to Portsmouth classes 444 & 450, by using the older versions I almost double the frame rate

gptech wrote:

tubemad wrote:If someone else wishes to try and change them then I can send you the scenario file

Yeah...let's have a look, I'm intrigued now. It's not a "rolling start" type scenario is it?

Hi Gary...Sorry folks, but I know this message is nothing to do with the subject matter, but it was to say that "calling Gary Padley..you have a PM" !!

Thanks for your patience folks

Derek