Atomic Systems

SkylineBoy wrote:

dave13 wrote:Indeed it is however when I managed to make a QD path it crashed at Exeter St Thomas.
Dave:)

Were you making these changes in 64-bit though? If so, it's likely the cause. Do all editing in 32-bit.

I've tried doing the editing in 32 and 64-bit it just keeps crashing!

Thanks Dave:)

SkylineBoy wrote:Were you making these changes in 64-bit though? If so, it's likely the cause. Do all editing in 32-bit.

That's not strictly true, as the only real recognised issue with the editor is that the 64bit version has a deep hatred of Tracks.bin files. Route editing, if it's track or track linked, is best done in 32bit but scenery editing is fine. Lofts and roads may also be fine, but there isn't enough evidence to make any kind of authoritative statement about those yet.
More importantly in this case though, is that scenario creation or later editing under 64bit doesn't bring any issues; an error in the 64bit editing as so far always occurred in doing the same procedure under 32bit. These errors may be caused by the upgrade to TS2019 as a whole, a route problem, or quite simply 'user error'
Of course it's sensible to test using the 32bit editor if you have issues in the 64 bit one, but stating that all editing should be done in 32bit rather negates having 64bit---if you can't create it using the extra resources available, how can you expect it to run making full use of them?

Dave, in the World Editor (preferably loading a completely empty scenario) can you move around the problematic area without it crashing?

gptech wrote: Dave, in the World Editor (preferably loading a completely empty scenario) can you move around the problematic area without it crashing?

Hi GP
I have a screen shot of the crash:

When it crashes I have to restart the machine as its the only I can get back to desktop!
Thanks Dave:)

gptech wrote:That's not strictly true, as the only real recognised issue with the editor is that the 64bit version has a deep hatred of Tracks.bin files. Route editing, if it's track or track linked, is best done in 32bit but scenery editing is fine. Lofts and roads may also be fine, but there isn't enough evidence to make any kind of authoritative statement about those yet.

Very early after the 64-bit release I found that creating a scenario was fine, but create a scenario where you changed the track properties and it would crash on loading it. Therefore I just use 32-bit for editing without issue. Maybe it's more complicated than that, maybe it isn't.

I've no idea why we are talking about authoritative statements either. It is my opinion on this internet forum that people are probably better served creating in 32-bit if they are having issues, at least until the 64-bit problems are sorted. I'm sure they are intelligent enough to take the advice or leave it right here.

dave13 wrote:I have a screen shot of the crash

Essentially the message that tells you it's gone wrong, without any useful information...… can you run LogMate and then try and load it and paste the last dozen lines or so of the report in here?

SkylineBoy wrote:people are probably better served creating in 32-bit if they are having issues

That advice originally came from DTG regarding to the specific error of the 64bit editor mangling Tracks.bin files, not a sweeping statement. It's important to make that distinction clear so that folk don't get the impression that any editing under 64bit is impossible. In addition, it's a sweeping "err on the side of caution" bit of advice, quite possibly something 'cobbled together' by well meaning, but erroneous users.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/thread ... ute.13312/

TrainSsim-Luke wrote: We're looking into this. It seems to be just limited to when something modifies the tracks.bin file, so scenario editing in 64-bit is still fine, but for the time being we recommend you do any route editing in the 32-bit version until this is fixed.

When you edit a scenario and change the track properties then of course you run the risk of building in a problem, though I've done the same thing on Woodhead BR with no bother. That may be because I live a charmed life but we're looking at a Tracks.bin/NetworkProperties issue, not a general, applicable in all cases, scenario editing problem.

gptech wrote:

dave13 wrote:I have a screen shot of the crash

Essentially the message that tells you it's gone wrong, without any useful information...… can you run LogMate and then try and load it and paste the last dozen lines or so of the report in here?

Hi all
Decided to delete the route as I have plenty that cover the area and life is to short!! lol
Dave:)

Route seems very touchy about any scenario changes. Any amendment of stock or pressing F2 to ignore missing stock and sim crashes. Removed a class 118 reskin from a scenario as I purchased the North Somerset only to realise yet another add on required, Now scenario decides invalid destination for player even though editor says fine and scenario crashes, never quite had this before.

Says missiong ribbons - tried to change the platform but that crashes it as well. Is there some block on the scenarios to prevent chnages?

I ended up buying the North Somerset add on plus the AP sound pack for the 117 and it still says I have something missing for a 117. AArgh!

chrisreb wrote: Is there some block on the scenarios to prevent chnages?

Extremely doubtful, can you fly about the route in the World editor without it crashing?
If you can, try the same in the Scenario editor.

Yep can fly around with no issue at all. The scenario is the Up Cornish Riviera. I have all the stock now but it complains that the player service is missing a ribbon for Plat 5 at Exeter. If you try another platform at Exeter the sim crashes.

Oh well I ran one scenario fine earlier so will move on and try another that does not need stock changing and see what happens

Not sure what we can suggest really the scenarios ran fine for all the team and testers involved and so far not had any other issues reported so far apart from the crash caused by the rfletcher 6MT Mk1's which a patch is now out for and there is no form of block or protection on the scenarios had people already swapping out different stock and them working fine. As with everything TS these days it varies massivly from person to person so hard to pinpoint the issue sadly.

To be fair with everyone using different hardware to run the game it isn't a surprise that some people get continual crashes and the next person experiences no problems at all, it's not a reflection on the route, when I was working on the scenarios for Glorious Devon it ran fine for me on mine but someone else ran it with mega stutters around Newton Abbot and that was using base stock, so if you use something more advanced then there's more work for the hardware to cope with

Managed to run another scenario complete with the new shader add on and had a lovely run along the coast with a stunning sunset. Just does not seem to like any amendments to scenarios. Oh well will press on and see how many I can run.

Lovely route

31160 wrote:To be fair with everyone using different hardware....

Not only that, but different configurations--UAC, folder/file permissions etc all influence how our copied of the game run.

adburgess1992 wrote:As with everything TS these days

The words "these" and "days" can be ignored....nothing new is happening; there's nothing new in the way we track the cause down...it's all pretty fundamental stuff.

Chris, as you can zip about the route OK it suggests that the issue is specific to that scenario....have you tried having LogMate running when you attempt to run it?
No guarantee of course, but it might throw a further clue towards the cause of, and thus the solution to, the issue.

chrisreb wrote:The scenario is the Up Cornish Riviera

This scenario ( de6ad7a8-86c6-4be9-8bf3-020e2eb9ca7c ) is a "rolling start" variant, so swapping stock with RW Tools only does half the job---the information contained in StartingSave.bin won't match that in ScenarioProperties.xml/Scenario.bin. You need to drop into the editor and untick the 'rolling start' box. If you cant get in the editor, then deleting the StartingSave.bin file may work.
I've just downloaded and installed the route, swapped the stock in the scenario and get an immediate crash when attempting to play...now I'll try my above advice....


EDIT: Yep. unticking the 'rolling start' box works and drops me straight in the cab of the HST.

adburgess1992 wrote:the scenarios ran fine for all the team and testers involved

At the risk of precipitating another "grand gesture", was the full installation package tested on a clean, never had any part of the pack installed before, system? The time stamp on the installer is 19:36 22/12/2018 and the scenario in question was last modified at 11:31 22/12/2018, only 8 hours previously, with the whole lot available for download either later that evening or during the 23rd, so for argument's sake shall we say within 24 hours of the finalisation of the package?.
Is that enough time to comprehensively test the installation as a package, and that all the included scenarios run through OK?
I appreciate that whilst in this case at least the issue we're looking at is more user created by an incomplete amendment of the scenario, and there's the spectre of 'getting it out on time' to deal with, but as a group you may wish to revisit your testing strategy. If nothing else it may save you from "another UKTS stupidly complex route debug thread " and allow you to just deal with the only to be expected issues folk have with any route/scenario/reskin due to their individual setups.

chrisreb wrote:Just does not seem to like any amendments to scenarios

As would any other rolling start scenario on any other route, it's definitely not a problem unique to this route or the 'guts' of the scenario itself---it's fair to say that 80% + of PC problems are due to *user error*, so that should always be the first thing you suspect. I'll claim that after swapping every item of stock in the scenario in question with eventual success (albeit needing an additional change) I've proven that there's no problem at all with editing/amending scenarios.

EDIT: I must also point out that the above was all done without any of the assets provided by the installer installed, so NOT having all a route's requirements isn't always a cause of problems. Bottom line, not directed to anybody in particular, is don't grasp at the first convenient straw that puts the blame on somebody else and make guesses about why, but investigate properly. Post with queries along the line of "has anybody else...." but don't put forward any theories as to why unless you can provide some (however tenuous) evidence. That'd make life much easier for those able and willing to help to do so,