DB BR407 Velero

[Rogge]

If the LZB is correctly implemented the "Ende" lamp on the display should start flashing as you approach the end of the LZB section, this is the prompt to hit the 'Frei' button. There's no audio warning though, so you have to either be vigilant or know the rough area to expect it.

I did a test scenario approaching Berlin on the Berlin-Leipzig route today and what i totally missed yesterday was the "Ende" lamp you mention. I got an audio warning, a LZB beep, and when i heard it today i noticed the "Ende" lamp and could just hit the End-key and then proceed without problems.

I am all for realism but since i had no PZB experience it was daunting coming from the previous ICE´s were the LZP kicks in automatically even without having enabled the PZB system. I will watch videos today!

When I put it into reverse the font/characters are in Chinese?

I see the same thing as well.

[749006]

In real life German drivers learn PZB first and may only be taught about LZB if they need it to work high speed passenger Service, so to me it just sounds strange to run with LZB on but PZB off!

My problem being trained as a British driver on Dmu's and Emu's I'm used to an Audible sound when passing a warning magnet which I would acknowledge.

The earlier German stock, old BR101 and the V200 along with some early vR models, the BR120, have a similar system where the warning sounds at the PZB magnet which makes sense to me.
Newer releases of German stock now have a proper version of PZB and at 63 I'm getting too old to get my head around it.

LZB is nice as it tells you the line speed and any changes and it slows and stops you at a red signal.
And it defaults to On with the HRQ Taurus

Peter

[gazz292]

i get the 'difficulty' with the German silent active PZB magnets too... amazed there's no audiable warning... but i guess as a driver you have the route knowleage and know to watch out for caution distant signals and have the 'PZB Wachsam' switch held down as you pass it... to release it after you've passed the active 1000hz magnet (which newer vR trains replicate)

I find that if i've just pased a distant signal (or combination main and distant) and i'm not 110% sure it was on green, i'll hit the PZB Wachsam switch just in case... a couple of times it has buzzed at me and started the flashing blue 85 lamp and 1000hz yellow solid lamp... then i'm applying full service brakes to try and get below the braking curve of being below 85 kph within 23 seconds from passing the signal... as with most trains you need to start braking before you pass the signal at caution.


BUT, you can also get a 1000hz magnet at a speed restriction warning board... i think it's on the freeware route "Hagen - Seigen V3' theres a few 80 kph and lower speed warning boards with active 1000hz magnets by them... you really have to watch the track ahead and spot the PZB magnet by the side of the track next to those speed warning signs... or 4 seconds later the brakes come on and you're thinking what the hell just happened... i passed no signals.

I think it adds to the realism tho... as a driver you are supposed to keep a watch out for all signals, speed restrictions and other dangers... and not go flying about in the virtual helecopter that follows the train admiring the scenery... although the vR route Konstance - Villingen is so beautifully made, i feel you should stop the train every few klicks and go for a fly about just to see the amazing detail of the villages and towns.. they go on for kilometers past what you can see from the cab.


oh yeah, the early V200 from kuju... bod i hated that, bloomin PZB lights lighting up as you passed the speeds for them... i.e the 55 lights up when your doing 55kph etc, and they basically put UK AWS into the train, BUT it showed that the base game was written for the UK signalling system,

So glad people on the German rail-sim forum take the time to re-write the functioning of those older trains, especially with new sounds recorded from the real thing, it makes it almost a pleasure to drive after all the mods have been applied.
and really glad that people like vR took the time to figure out hacks and work arounds to make the German systems work with the sim,

[smarty2]

I drove it with pzb active from Munchen to Innsbruck, I had a quick helicopter ride and when I went back into the cab I got a schwanbremsung (sorry for spelling?) having passed no signal? Then several times passing green signals? That's why I never use pzb! Frustrates the hell out of me.

However, it may be the signalling on that workshop route I do not know? Anyone else care to try it?

[jstange]

I drove it with pzb active from Munchen to Innsbruck, I had a quick helicopter ride and when I went back into the cab I got a schwanbremsung (sorry for spelling?) having passed no signal? Then several times passing green signals? That's why I never use pzb! Frustrates the hell out of me.

However, it may be the signalling on that workshop route I do not know? Anyone else care to try it?

Hi Martin,

the correct term is Zwangsbremsung, forced braking. Schwanbremsung would mean "swan braking", not sure if you could use swans to stop the whole train

But seriously - what could have happened to you is that you passed a speed restriction warning of 8 or lower. These must be "wachsamed" too. Or are you sure your braking was not caused by SIFA?

[749006]

It's strange the German equivalent of the AWS is so difficult when the Signalling is so much Simpler than UK Signalling

Most German Stop Signals, Hauptsignal, have a Distant, Vorsignal, and it tells you how fast you need to go at each signal with a restricting speed.
And you have to run at the diverging speed from the signal rather than from the points where the line diverges

None of this Road Knowledge stuff we have in the UK

Peter

[gazz292]

There's also the EBuLa... electronic onboard timetable (the EB bit) and (the u bit) weekly notices / speed restrictions (the La bit) system in German train cabs, gives the driver a 'view' of the route ahead so he can plan when to start braking, when to look out for signals, speed changes and so on.

I use TS_MFD when driving in railworks, this gives amoungst other functions an EBuLa type system... i use the remote option and have my EBuLa on an android tablet, it's really handy having this function, but i still occasionally miss a speed restriction warning board with an active 1000hz magnet by it.

[tnleeuw01]

Some German locos from vR have EBuLa, and I really like driving with it but setting it up for a route needs to be done externally and I often forget about that. Makes it a bit of a hassle, although I understand why it's done like that.

Having an external program that would show the correct EBuLa for the route I'm driving on a tablet, like an iPad, now that would be like magic... Especially if it's able to fetch the right EBuLa for my actual route and location, without me having to program it in!

Sounds like something to investigate, also if I could use it for an older model iPad which we have spare at home!

Cheers,

--Tim

[holzroller]

There is a thread about the software on Railsim.de, and a link to the program which has had several updates. Don't use it myself, but looks good.

[gazz292]

Re the external EBuLa... TS_MFD does that (the external program mentioned)... but it uses android tablets (or can display on the main monitor railworks is running on, or on external monitors connected to the main pc),

You do need to select the correct EBuLa from a list to suit the scenario you are driving... though a lot of the EBuLa's have the scenario name on them making it much easier to find the right one... and apparantly there's a function where you press the 'Filter' button and it shows you only EBuLa's relevent to the area you are in read from your railworks 'gps' position, but i never had that working,

However there are some routes that EBuLa's are useless on, as a few of the routes released by the 'big' companies (DTG usually) have no hectometer boards!!! and without them you can't position yourself using the EBuLa info... but i believe there are some 'deluxe' versions of those routes available on rail-sim.de.

Anyway, i've taken this topic way off it's original intention. so will shut up now... but this is my current set up:

[749006]

Back to the BR407 - a reskin of the train in to the Class 374 Eurostar
https://sites.google.com/view/mjwdesign/reskins

Peter

[Trev123]

Running with PZB and LZB turned off with AFB turned on it won't let you go any faster than 160kph turning it off though you can go faster than 160kph.

[ttjph]

I keep reading the title of this thread as "Velcro"

Vaguely on-topic, I've mostly got the hang of PZB as implemented on DTG's Köln-Koblenz, and it does feel that whereas AWS / DVD are mostly there to help you, the German systems are there to catch you out... but perhaps with full EBuLa it works better.

[holzroller]

There are also several community patches on railsim de for VR type keymap, updated sounds and looks.

[jpilborough]

I keep reading the title of this thread as "Velcro"

Vaguely on-topic, I've mostly got the hang of PZB as implemented on DTG's Köln-Koblenz, and it does feel that whereas AWS / DVD are mostly there to help you, the German systems are there to catch you out... but perhaps with full EBuLa it works better.

Yes, that's exactly what it's there for. It's a Train Protection system, there to monitor the driver and intervene if they do not react appropriately. In contrast, AWS is crude form of in-cab signalling combined with a vigilance system, with no Train Protection function - it will never intervene if a driver goes right past a red signal.
Many Brits may find the PZB system strange, but to me it is amazing that whilst Germany has had PZB in various evolutions since 1934, and most of the rest of Central Europe has similar systems, the UK had no nationwide Train Protection at all until TPWS was rolled out in 2003.

My problem being trained as a British driver on Dmu's and Emu's I'm used to an Audible sound when passing a warning magnet which I would acknowledge.

The earlier German stock, old BR101 and the V200 along with some early vR models, the BR120, have a similar system where the warning sounds at the PZB magnet which makes sense to me.
Newer releases of German stock now have a proper version of PZB and at 63 I'm getting too old to get my head around it.

I do often wonder what would happen if PZB was introduced in the UK and British drivers had to learn to use it just the same as their German counterparts. RMT would probably denounce it as unsafe on the grounds that it increases driver workload, demand a £10000 "training allowance" and then go on strike