Atomic Systems

Of course, there is one more point to make and I may be wrong, I often am, and only the op knows, and that is he/she could be ten years old? Not come across many children that are that picky in how they like to describe things....! If he's/she's a teen then yeah, they don't care much in my experience of what they say and how they say it!

smarty2 wrote:If he's a teen then yeah, they don't care much in my experience of what they say and how they say it!

My kids are in their 20s, and they're still that way!

You do raise the important point of nobody knowing anything about the OP though; would it be right to respond dramatically to a post by someone who's suffered a stroke, or is Aspergic and unable to use, or be unaware of, the *right way of doing things*?

Of course each and every one of us can, and probably has (I know I have), responded *badly* to posts but in a decent forum such as this the members tend to *put you straight* when you cross the line.

As you say Gary, It's a "generational" thing.

And yes indeed, responders should think before they react mate!

And am I allowed to be gender specific these days? Aren't kids meant to be gender neutral or something? I get confused.

Hi
Lets face the old English Law doesn't work any more,you are innocent until found guilty,doesn't work in this media led version,which means you are guilty until proved innocent.

Re the route in question,I don't mind paying the £20.00 Price,my, but as it's only 5 miles in length, I think I will soon get bored with it,after all there is not a lot you can do with with it,a couple of up and down journeys and that's it.

Maybe if it was set in the 1930-50's then you could run it as a normal country branch line,you can then add branch freight trains as well.

Which Loco's are actually new,is City of Wells new? or part of SSS Bulleid light Pacific pack,The Std 4 MT looks like it's a new loco,(or is it from the SSS Stainmore Route?)and possibly the Mk 1 Suburban Coaches are new.
I hope this isn't classed as criticizing the route

I can understand Matt's frustration with the OPs comment, especially after all the hard work that's been put into it, but yes, I think his response could have been a bit less harsh.

Looks like an impressive route from the screenshots.

I'd just like to clarify that I also feel the product does look very impressive with a massive attention to detail. I've got no bones about the price tag because if I feel it is worth it to me then I will buy it.

My only issue was the developer response. The opening post was not great and could have been expanded on much more but the reply from a developer was even worse. Just think about the hundreds of guests that view these forums daily, I would not be the only one with a similar opinion. There are much better ways to respond to what is perceived as criticism.

smarty2 wrote:Aren't kids meant to be gender neutral or something?

It's when they fully understand *gender* that your problems really begin....

Agreed - It's when they fully understand *gender* that your problems really begin.... next generation starts!

Ahh good old UKTS reminding me why I quit again.

I’m not getting involved here,and won’t be replying beyond this post.

For one the route is not “Vulcan Productions” Keighley and worth valley railway,it is a joint project published by Steam Sounds Supreme not Vulcan.

Financially it has to go on at that price,for 5 miles I suspect some people would expect to pay £10-12 for,however with influential and costly developers such as Skyhook (a business) and Steam Sounds Supreme,as well as VP,the KWVR and Mark Brinton all taking separate payment from this project It simply isn’t viable to sell it at that sort of price whilst making an acceptable amount of money,I’ve worked over 500 hours on the route and won’t see a return to really justify that.

I have worked very hard on the scenery of the route for over 2 years,and have worked more hours on this than I have for JT on London-Aylesbury,to put some perspective into it. Beyond this Skyhook have made us over 100 assets including all the signal models and signs and Mark Brinton has spent numerous hours doing signal scripting. Even once all this is accounted for we are able to FULLY include both 34092 (3 versions) AND 75078 with awesome sounds etc,as well as a maroon Mk1 sub brake and std class coach. Besides all this the reskins of kwvr locos themselves all have had many hours spent on them with advanced sounds applied and much much more.

Quite why people have to start going on about how stuff is a rip off instead of just saying it’s not for them is disapointing and borders on insulting,and as I said previously is a good reminder of why we (VP) quit UKTS earlier this year.

Whilst I fully agree it is expensive,it’s hopefully easier to understand why when you realise the circumstances. If not,sorry,but that’s the way it is.

almark wrote:Quite why people have to start going on about how stuff is a rip off

Where is that then?
Unless I'm missing something nobody has quibbled over the price, with the possible exception of a vague and incomplete opening post; the users first post in UKTS incidentally so you can't even take the view that he/she is one of those who habitually grumble. Read the thread properly and you'll see that the comments regarding the pricing have been:

"...will be purchasing it when funds allow"
"Two locos and new coaches easily warrant 20 quid....."
"I don't mind paying the £20.00 Price"
"I've got no bones about the price tag …"

The only *negative*, yet considered, post about the route is from one who has fully read the VP page, and decided that it isn't their cup of tea--mainly because it's not their sphere of interest though, not solely arrived at due to the price.

almark wrote:Whilst I fully agree it is expensive,it’s hopefully easier to understand why when you realise the circumstances. If not,sorry,but that’s the way it is.

Without your opening, "I just have to have a dig back" (at folk who have actually been very *grown up* and not made any comments about the route's pricing, worth or quality) line your post was more along the lines of how the initial response from VP (either as an individual or a group statement) should have gone.

Come on Mark, you're from Yorkshire..we don't have such fragile egos for God's sake.

gptech wrote:Without your opening, "I just have to have a dig back" (at folk who have actually been very *grown up* and not made any comments about the route's pricing, worth or quality) line your post was more along the lines of how the initial response from VP (either as an individual or a group statement) should have gone.

Across the spectrum it isn't the initial response, and since the dual SSS and VP announcement it has had to be stated many times over, despite there being much screenshot, blog posts, WIP posts and livestreams explaining exactly what has gone into this whole package. Agreed maybe it wasn't the right flavour of response at all, but you have to remember that apart from a select few, most of the developers are doing stuff in the spare time they have away from full time jobs, family life etc etc.

That's the last input I shall have on any such matters.

Like the saying goes, its not what you say but the way that you say it. That goes for both the original poster and the response.

Regards,

Len

deltic009 wrote:Across the spectrum it isn't the initial response

So why did Mark open with...

almark wrote:Ahh good old UKTS reminding me why I quit again.

You can't blame this forum for what happens on others.

I’m not getting involved here

And it would appear that quitting the forums doesn't actually mean that does it? I am not surprised at the sense of entitlement and respect certain devs seem to demand here and elsewhere, quite extraordinary though!

But since you have raised my hackles when I was being balanced and fair when all we get is a dummy being thrown out the pram by self-important entitled devs? Well as skyline has said, no interest in stuff VP have to offer anymore if they think we should be bowing down in ever grateful thanks to em.

I like Vulcan Production's work and I for one will buy the route, the OP is not forced to buy it if he doesn't want it, though of course it wasn't a great way to post the way he did, also the response was uncalled for, attacking other people's work.

Methinks this thread needs locking down and/or deleting by mods.