Atomic Systems

SkylineBoy wrote:

IronBidder wrote:This means users like me will now not be able to improve their DTG product, without buying what I expect will either be a much more expensive expansion pack that probably won't be fully compatible, or it will be a standalone competing product. Either way it seems likely that my existing DTG model and bundled scenarios cannot now be improved with an easy to use bolt on pack.

Let's be realistic here and cut out the hyperbole. AP gave you nearly four years of opportunity to users like you to improve the DTG product. But now you want to complain because you didn't buy it?

Being realistic, why would I buy an add-on for a product I didn't own four years ago?

gptech wrote:

IronBidder wrote:I want compatibility with the base model, I want compatibility with DTG supplied scenarios and I want compatibility with career scenarios, which I'm not now getting.

I want to live in a perfect world too, but wishes aside how do you *know* that the new pack won't address those wants? You're basically saying that you want AP sounds applied automatically to every class 319 you own but would you be willing to pay the price for Richard to deal with every variant/version? The line has to be drawn somewhere, and unless you have evidence that your worries are fact not fear, we don't yet know just what the new pack will offer. (Adding AP enhancements to stock not covered in a pack is really very easy to do yourself; just takes a little bit of thought (thinking a little seems to be something that comes easily to many UKTS members) and half an idea of how the game works---instructions for doing this yourself have been posted more than once in these pages, and not only by me)

By all means slam AP when you know the details if there's a glaring discrepancy or failing in it's scope or implementation, but can we/you learn what's what before hammering 'em?

I'm not slamming them for the new 319 product, which as I said in my original post is currently unknown. I'm complaining that their recent releases haven't given me what I want. Which is a fact.

As for compatibility, I only expect it for the base DTG supplied product and scenarios, which I think is a reasonable thing for an add-on pack to have.

IronBidder wrote:As for compatibility, I only expect it for the base DTG supplied product and scenarios

...and who would you hold responsible for support if you had need?... could you decide whether the base model had an issue or it was one introduced by the enhancement? AP enhancement packs haven't touched the base models for a while, instead offering in many cases a separate 'AP enabled' version to prevent breaking existing scenarios. With many (most) scenarios from DTG being of the Career type it's unrealistic to expect any enhancement provider to rework those scenarios and guarantee that they'll work on all machines. Don't forget that the machine you're using to play the game has a big capital 'P' in it's acronym---consider what that 'P' stands for.

IronBidder wrote:Being realistic, why would I buy an add-on for a product I didn't own four years ago?

How long then have you owned a class 319, and which one(s) do you have?

ziggyshadowdust wrote:I'm less disappointed because I can still get the soundpack...oh wait.

Personally I keep local backups of all my ap purchases, so I still have access to that soundpack. No surprise to me that ap have removed it though, why keep it when they have this new product in the works.

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I am very much looking forward to this.

The AP 'enchanced' version is great but a full new model sounds awesome and with it being by jordi (who has been working on this for years... Look back in these forums for 2013) and the previous things he has done this will be top notch!

hstfan44 wrote:

ziggyshadowdust wrote:I'm less disappointed because I can still get the soundpack...oh wait.

Personally I keep local backups of all my ap purchases, so I still have access to that soundpack. No surprise to me that ap have removed it though, why keep it when they have this new product in the works.

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Retired products are still available for download from your personal download page at AP's site too.

Hasn't this 319 been in development for a long time? I'm sure I remember initial renders long before the official 319 was released, to a good reception as at the time it was "just what the Brighton Main Line was missing".

I get the smell of "Why are they doing THAT when *I* want this" whenever these threads tip over the precipice of third party versus core content.

I look forward to it. Choice is good. Everyone's simulation expectations are entirely different - if the industry and content creators supporting it can supply a good average of content as is realistic for them to do so the user bears some responsibility to turn it into what they expect. If you want all bells and whistles then it's fair to say you'll have to pony up for AP/MKS/Railright products and swap them in, if you're not that fussed you're not made to buy them. If there isn't Workshop content for your exact DLC collection, then that's no ones fault - maybe you'll have to learn to create it. It's just bad luck if you plump to buy something then something better or more suited comes out. That's life. DTG can knock out content quicker with a bigger team that tends to be fairly generic and close enough for most hence an obvious missing piece of stock appearing from their stable quicker than a more advanced or comprehensive version from a third party.

The fact there is a whole slew of content washing around for this game is a very good thing, especially if it caters for as many corners of the community as possible from the hardcore simmers to the nostalgia buffs to the arcade drivers. Still many gaps in the experience that will get filled one day (for me, more BR blue eras, the southern WCML, and loads of tinkering opportunities with existing locos and stock) and I'm actually happy that such things are there to keep content creators thinking and making, and the modding community healthy.

Armstrong Powerhouse wrote:Volume 1 of our Class 319 Electric Multiple Unit Pack will focus on the class between the beginning of this decade and the present day where many changes have taken place. To name a few:

- Refurbishment of cab to modern standards & fitment of GSM-R

- Refurbishment to comply with imminent PRM (Persons with Reduced Mobility) legislation (disabled toilet installed with resultant window configuration changes, LED destination displays & compliant door open/close alarms)

- Cascade to pastures new with London Midland & Northern

Splitting the class into two volumes has allowed us to home in on the detail and many variations this class has experienced over the years which simply wouldn't have been viable in a single pack. We look forward to showing you these!

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B084314

USRailFan wrote:

hstfan44 wrote:

ziggyshadowdust wrote:I'm less disappointed because I can still get the soundpack...oh wait.

Personally I keep local backups of all my ap purchases, so I still have access to that soundpack. No surprise to me that ap have removed it though, why keep it when they have this new product in the works.

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Retired products are still available for download from your personal download page at AP's site too.

There are the Workshop scenario creators that need stock released on Steam in order to publish scenarios. This divides the community that needs the steam releases of some AP stock (205, 313), which aren’t really bought because of ONE LIVERY, to play some scenarios while the AP store versions cost similar and have much more liveries yet don’t have Workshop compatibility.

This announcement has stirred things up a bit, also strange how people were waiting for me to complain, if it where DTG then yes I would, but I have always been a fan of AP and have defended them when others have knocked then, I also have every sound and enhancement pack, so must like there work, just seems strange why they would do this, as there class 319 sound pack was there first enhancement pack although not sold as that. They must know that some people are not going to buy this because we have a good one, hence the reason to remove it, otherwise they would sell both side by side, like DTG with both class 31`s. Hardly the same as comparing the forthcoming reworked class 390 or class 456, I would feel the same if AP announced a new class 40,92,150,158,321,460 to name a few I would not buy them either, I am not `BORG` I do not want perfection these models along with the current enhanced 319 are very good, with a limited budget I would not be able to justify a re-purchase for a few extra enhancements, not like the box standard dlc that comes from DTG which need enhancing to make me want to drive them.

It seem there is quite a big backlash on facebook about this, with lots of really negative feeback, I have always looked forward to the next offering that AP has in development, hopefully this is just a blip and I will be back to being a day one purchase.

hstfan44 wrote:

ziggyshadowdust wrote:I'm less disappointed because I can still get the soundpack...oh wait.

Personally I keep local backups of all my ap purchases, so I still have access to that soundpack. No surprise to me that ap have removed it though, why keep it when they have this new product in the works.

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You don't need to... Although the downloads are always available in the downloads area of your account, you still need the extra stock packs.

BUT

An email to Richard will always result in a link to the stock for the packs. I had to do a reinstall recently of my whole TS and Richard sent the links in less than 48 hours. And when I missed one, he sent that too just as quickly. Yes, I had a back up but I needed a complete clean install

david1 wrote:This announcement has stirred things up a bit, also strange how people were waiting for me to complain, if it where DTG then yes I would, but I have always been a fan of AP and have defended them when others have knocked then, I also have every sound and enhancement pack, so must like there work, just seems strange why they would do this, as there class 319 sound pack was there first enhancement pack although not sold as that. They must know that some people are not going to buy this because we have a good one, hence the reason to remove it, otherwise they would sell both side by side, like DTG with both class 31`s. Hardly the same as comparing the forthcoming reworked class 390 or class 456, I would feel the same if AP announced a new class 40,92,150,158,321,460 to name a few I would not buy them either, I am not `BORG` I do not want perfection these models along with the current enhanced 319 are very good, with a limited budget I would not be able to justify a re-purchase for a few extra enhancements, not like the box standard dlc that comes from DTG which need enhancing to make me want to drive them.

It seem there is quite a big backlash on facebook about this, with lots of really negative feeback, I have always looked forward to the next offering that AP has in development, hopefully this is just a blip and I will be back to being a day one purchase.

The majority of people on that FB page are stupid little kids who cannot use their 'Shut up and take my money' memes. Hence the backlash.

It really is simple, dont like it, dont buy it and move on. As you say, likely the next product will be something you like

Can someone explain what all this complaining is about?

Either
[A] - you purchased the earlier Class 319/325 Sound pack from AP, as I did
no problem just keep using it - nothing has changed.
But you lost it during a reinstall - no problem - Owners of Any DLC from AP can still download those items even if they have been removed from sale.

- you did not purchase the earlier Class 319/325 Sound pack from AP and it is something you now want
[C] - you have only just started playing TS2018 and would like a 319 Sound Pack

You have not lost out - a new version of something is being released - like any other DLC you only buy it because you want it, not because you have to.

Peter

We are complaining because there are people that own the DTG 319 but have not bought the now-discontinued sound pack for it. They cannot enjoy using the DTG 319 in Workshop scenarios when the new AP one will not be compatible.

Some
More information posted on AP Facebook

Volume 1 of our Class 319 Electric Multiple Unit Pack will focus on the class between the beginning of this decade and the present day where many changes have taken place. To name a few:

- Refurbishment of cab to modern standards & fitment of GSM-R

- Refurbishment to comply with imminent PRM (Persons with Reduced Mobility) legislation (disabled toilet installed with resultant window configuration changes, LED destination displays & compliant door open/close alarms)

- Cascade to pastures new with London Midland & Northern

Splitting the class into two volumes has allowed us to home in on the detail and many variations this class has experienced over the years which simply wouldn't have been viable in a single pack. We look forward to showing you these!

What is it with train sim add-ons which brings out the better complaining? It reminds me of people moaning they can't get KFC when there are children in Africa who would love to have the dilemma of having to go to Macdonalds instead! Have some perspective, you have a choice whether to purchase it or not or stick with the original.

If someone has the class 319 and they have not bought the sound pack then presumably they are happy with it as it is if not it is their tough luck.

Workshop scenarios will still work with the original DTG version.

I would love to see where you got the figures for how many class 205 and 313 sold through steam.

As for using the Facebook trainsim comments as examples mentioned earlier, I have never seen such a load of entitled rubbish spouted everytime an add-on is announced, although I notice that the steam period producers do not attract the same comments! That is not a facebook bash in general as I use it a lot.

Peter