Atomic Systems

It would be a shame to see this gone, does anyone model it yet ?
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/bus ... 66501.html
John

johnrossetti wrote:It would be a shame to see this gone, does anyone model it yet ?
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/bus ... 66501.html
John

John,

Looking at your link, the whole business model seems to have horribly wrong ! Meanwhile some of us are still "nodding" around on 142s !!!, with no new electric units to work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !
The 707s do have the ability to be modified for pantograph use if required.

springer

Springer6 wrote:Meanwhile some of us are still "nodding" around on 142s !!!, with no new electric units to work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !

Not quite sure where you get that from?
Northern have new EMU's and DMU's on order - the first EMU was completed recently
https://www.railmagazine.com/galleries/ ... n-in-spain

Peter

Although much of the Northern network will never see either.

Just for a laugh, I tried booking the cheapest tickets I could at off peak during a weekday as far in the future as possible.
Destination: Penzance, return.

I worked out it would cost me twice as much and take the same time as it would if I drove there myself.

No wonder companies are able to buy new fleets of trains with that kind of gouge.

749006 wrote:

Springer6 wrote:Meanwhile some of us are still "nodding" around on 142s !!!, with no new electric units to work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !

Not quite sure where you get that from?
Northern have new EMU's and DMU's on order - the first EMU was completed recently
https://www.railmagazine.com/galleries/ ... n-in-spain

Peter

And you believe in fairies as well I assume ? Seriously, just look at the history of say the Manchester to Preston (via Bolton) electrification project. That's been "on order" and ongoing for about 4 years since the start of the massive disruption in raising all the bridges.

In January they delayed the completion date yet again for about the fourth time. This time they could not even give a new target completion date ! Whilst we are on about "new" stock, just look at the terrible, clapped out, 30 year old 319s sent to northern for the Wigan/Liverpool electrification. If you used these northern routes, you would also develop an "I will believe it when I see it" attitude .

Springer6 wrote:

749006 wrote:

Springer6 wrote:Meanwhile some of us are still "nodding" around on 142s !!!, with no new electric units to work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !

Not quite sure where you get that from?
Northern have new EMU's and DMU's on order - the first EMU was completed recently
https://www.railmagazine.com/galleries/ ... n-in-spain

Seriously, just look at the history of say the Manchester to Preston (via Bolton) electrification project. That's been "on order" and ongoing for about 4 years since the start of the massive disruption in raising all the bridges.

But that is down to Network Rail who will spend more money down south than up North

Springer6 wrote:Whilst we are on about "new" stock, just look at the terrible, clapped out, 30 year old 319s sent to northern for the Wigan/Liverpool electrification.

Any you call the 319's which have been refurbished with new seating and lighting "clapped out"? - I presume you are one of the strange cranks who would prefer to travel around on 142's
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... terior.JPG - Well the public like the 319's because you get on one when it's below zero and they are warm - unlike dmu's.

Springer6 wrote:If you used these northern routes, you would also develop an "I will believe it when I see it" attitude .

I do use these Northern Routes - I have lived in, 62 years, and worked on the Railway, 44 years, in the Manchester area
So even though Rail Magazine has pictures of the new units that Northern will be buying you don't believe these trains are coming?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ss_331.png
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/w ... on__12.JPG

Peter

J0hnG wrote:Just for a laugh, I tried booking the cheapest tickets I could at off peak during a weekday as far in the future as possible.
Destination: Penzance, return.

I worked out it would cost me twice as much and take the same time as it would if I drove there myself.

No wonder companies are able to buy new fleets of trains with that kind of gouge.

You say you looked for a return but you did not say from where
So I assumed London and looked at fares - cheapest Lon - Penz mid week was £37.00 - cheapest Penz - Lon mid week was £24.00

You are not required to give the train a MOT, you do not need to insure the train, you do not need to insure the train driver, you do not need to buy new tyres for the train, you do not need to put Fuel in to the train.
All these things which are free for Car drivers

Also non of the train companies own the trains - they lease them - as there would be no point in buying new trains when the franchise to operate them only lasts 10 years or less.
The train company specifies what it wants and the Lease company buys the trains.

Peter

749006 wrote:So even though Rail Magazine has pictures of the new units that Northern will be buying you don't believe these trains are coming?

Peter, are you mis-reading/understanding the initial comment?

Springer6 wrote:work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !

The completion of the electrification of the routes is where the problems for us scummy Northerners lie; at least you Lancs guys have had a start made....

gptech wrote:

749006 wrote:So even though Rail Magazine has pictures of the new units that Northern will be buying you don't believe these trains are coming?

Peter, are you mis-reading/understanding the initial comment?

Springer6 wrote:work the "to be electrified" northern routes-- if and when they are ever completed !

The completion of the electrification of the routes is where the problems for us scummy Northerners lie; at least you Lancs guys have had a start made....

I don't think so - unable to tell which side of the Pennines Springer sits - but he's quick to condemn the 319's which only operate in the North West.

749006 wrote:

J0hnG wrote:Just for a laugh, I tried booking the cheapest tickets I could at off peak during a weekday as far in the future as possible.
Destination: Penzance, return.

I worked out it would cost me twice as much and take the same time as it would if I drove there myself.

No wonder companies are able to buy new fleets of trains with that kind of gouge.

You say you looked for a return but you did not say from where
So I assumed London and looked at fares - cheapest Lon - Penz mid week was £37.00 - cheapest Penz - Lon mid week was £24.00

You are not required to give the train a MOT, you do not need to insure the train, you do not need to insure the train driver, you do not need to buy new tyres for the train, you do not need to put Fuel in to the train.
All these things which are free for Car drivers

Also non of the train companies own the trains - they lease them - as there would be no point in buying new trains when the franchise to operate them only lasts 10 years or less.
The train company specifies what it wants and the Lease company buys the trains.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but I don't mind providing some more info as to where I got my data from as it looks like I'm getting ripped off

Source website: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

Criteria:

From: HWY
To: PNZ
Date: Thu 10 May
Leaving HWY Time: 04:00 or after (why travel all that way if you only have a couple of hours to explore)
Return, same day @ 21:00

The cheapest ticket shown is a "Super Off-Peak Return" that means I have to start at 10:00 arrive at 19:32 it costs £123.10.

I'd be really chuffed if you could explain how to get better prices because, as a train nut, it's my preferred mode of transport.

Thanks for taking the time to post

Try thetrainline.co.uk

To start, never use The Trainline. Despite their advertising claiming to be the cheapest, they never can be because they charge a booking fee. The tickets found on Trainline can be found on any other booking engine and the majority of these charge no fees.

Now, your issue is making such a long journey and your start/end times are unrealistic. Couple this with trying to search for a return ticket when two advance singles are often cheaper. You cannot start at 04:00, there are no trains and you cannot return at 21:00, there are no trains that late with connections to High Wycombe. The sleeper is an option for a return journey from Penzance, but it's probably going to push you right out of your acceptable price range.

So, a simple RedSpottedHanky search for two advance singles brings up what I have attached, these could be booked at the time of writing this post. Travel out at 06:04 from High Wycombe to Marylebone, go underground to Paddington then go on the 07:30 service from Paddington to Penzance arriving at 13:13, this outward ticket is £41.50. Return is at 17:42 over the same route and returns you to High Wycombe at 00:50 the next day, this costs £28.50 for a total of £70.00. Please note that with these advance tickets, you are tied to the specific timed trains on your ticket, if there is terrible weather in Penzance you cannot come home early.

Bear in mind that this was just a quick search, there are other factors that can make ticketing cheaper such as splitting your journey, there are sites that can help with this although I don't think it's feasible for this particular journey. Also, are you travelling alone? Are you eligible for any type of railcard? All of these offer more potential savings.

749006 wrote

Any you call the 319's which have been refurbished with new seating and lighting "clapped out"? - I presume you are one of the strange cranks who would prefer to travel around on 142's Well the public like the 319's because you get on one when it's below zero and they are warm - unlike dmu's.

I certainly didn't say or don't think that 142s are better than the cast off northern 319s, but my only criteria for a train is not the heating system. The last time I traveled on one of these "refurbished " trains, it wasn't just the new seats I noticed and the newly painted, but still dented sides. It was the rocky ride, the noisy bogies, the jerky acceleration and the strange squeaking sound of indeterminate origin, that sounded like a pig being tortured.

I recently spent some time traveling from Brentwood into Liverpool Street and back on the GEML, on old 315s, which are due to be retired soon at least from this route( they'll possibly send them up North when we eventually get some more wires to power them, but more likely they'll send them to Wales ). Even the 315s were smoother and much quieter than the northern 319s

I too read the Rail Magazine like most of you and I did read that article (with a wry smile). Maybe the new trains will appear ( eventually , but in probably insufficient numbers), but they are long overdue, just like most of the electrification projects up here.

gptech wrote

The completion of the electrification of the routes is where the problems for us scummy Northerners lie; at least you Lancs guys have had a start made....

I think that this was the impetus for my initial "rant". It's probably even worse when they do make a "start" , they cause all the inevitable initial disruption, but then go on a four year tea break.

We are all having fun here aren't we ?

But the serious point is that a southern TOC can consider ditching some nearly new stock for some even newer trains whilst the "scummy northerners" are still waiting. Even north of the border gets far more investment per capita in track improvements and new stock than the north of England ( whichever side of the Pennines ) . We can't go into the reasons here, because it's politics, but it does irk sometimes.

"In the franchise competition eventually won by Arriva, the Government had announced that the Class 14x fleet in use by Northern would have to be withdrawn, with the disabled access deadline of January 1 2020 acting as the catalyst."

It will happen.

Regards,

Len