Bossman Games Stanier Class 5 (Black Five)

[gptech]

it accidentally caused a completely separate bug to be revealed in the process, which causes the popups to spam in a different method but one which isn't always immediately apparent

I'm sure all of us who've *messed about* with things in the game have come across the same: edit a .bin file to add/enhance something and something else goes *wrong*; sort out a bumpy bit of track and a week later you find a section 2 miles away is 10 feet above the ground; improve a texture and the first time you try the item in a night time scenario it glows like it's running on Ready Brek.

OK, they're much easier to resolve than scripting issues but it does reinforce Edwards point that what we want isn't always so easy to implement---those who just want to 'install and run' need to be aware of that.
Nobody should have been in any doubt about what they were buying:

Pro Range

The Pro Range is aimed toward the serious train simulation enthusiast looking for a complex machine to master. Each product is designed to provide education and entertainment for users. Xbox controller and HUD interface support do not come as standard and users will need to read the accompanying documentation to fully understand the operation of this advanced simulation.

(https://store.steampowered.com/app/5623 ... oco_AddOn/)

As it's touted as *Advanced*, and what you get is *Advanced*, it can't be classed as not being of merchantable quality.

Yes, it would be nice if there was a simple key stroke to take the most advanced loco to the most simple for those less able to deal with the complex stuff, or even those who just fancy a quick blast in the new toy before bed, but this is real life and real life doesn't work like that.

[jstange]

I know the cause of this one now thankfully and have solved it on the other related engines, but until Ben gets back it can't be applied to the Black five and well getting an update through DTG does take some time

kindest regards

Edward

Hello Edward,

although I am still to encoutner this bug so it doesn't really bother me - anyway, would you consider releasing the fix for this via other channels? UKTS or another download site? If it is a small script update that could possibly be viable I guess...?

[1crick14a]

And another question from me please... are you also getting this red glow beneath the loco (from the firebox?)? Is it prototypical? Seems rather too intensive to me...

If I remember just close the damper mate, were very rare to run with both open
BR men used Rear damper only and used front if box were overloaded.

My only gripe is that the model has the live steam water overflow pipe on the wrong side of model, it
should be on fireman's side of cab.

As for the patch I dumped it and used original WHY because the reverser screw lever were made to turn to fast.

ohanlon Ex BR Black 5 Fireman

[metrobus]

Perhaps, but once again I can't exactly do anything until Ben gets back anyway, and doing external patches is a bit of a potential recipe for future accidents and bugs, so its an option I'd much prefer to avoid for the time being .

Just on a different topic going back a bit, I do genuinely have to ask what people find difficult about the black five, as far as advanced locos go it is actually fairly tame in my opinion. There are a few aspects which aren't terribly intuitive I grant you (Reverser on F4 HUD), and the assist pop ups can bug out from time to time which possibly doesn't help matters exactly (especially so in the case of resuming from a save, I'd advise against doing that!), but other than that I don't personally think its terribly difficult. There's no failures possible like on some engines and there's no tricky quirks like on the G2 so I'm genuinely curious what people are finding difficult.

kindest regards

Edward

[jstange]

I can't tell you, Edward, I myself find the BMG's black 5 a real pleasure to drive. It keeps one busy all the time and although it happens to me from time to time that I forget doing this or that during driving it actually only reminds me how realistic it all is. But I certainly do not find driving this black 5 more difficult than any of the recent VictoryWorks releases so not sure why people complain about the black 5 while I've never seen any complaints in the VW thread.

As for driving the only thing I could criticise is the automatic fireman who tends to add too much coal most of the time and you end up with a lot of steam coming out of the safety valves. So I'm not using this feature very often. However - VW products don't even have this option and I am OK managing firing myself.

As for the patch - releasing it outside of steam has its advantages: it is optional and can be offered "as is" with a warning. It could install on top of the .ap so that you can easily delete it if you're having a problem. Releasing via DTG takes too long and I believe that when a product is older they tend to hold back any new patch releases to keep the cost to a minimum (just my feeling).

[metrobus]

Ah the locos auto fireman always fires the loco optimally, as if you were intending to run the engine flat out. So for pootling along he is a bit excessive, but then again having too much steam is probably better than the opposite of having too little when you most need it and end up crawling to a halt

kindest regards

Edward

[Tom5305]

Perhaps, but once again I can't exactly do anything until Ben gets back anyway, and doing external patches is a bit of a potential recipe for future accidents and bugs, so its an option I'd much prefer to avoid for the time being .

Just on a different topic going back a bit, I do genuinely have to ask what people find difficult about the black five, as far as advanced locos go it is actually fairly tame in my opinion. There are a few aspects which aren't terribly intuitive I grant you (Reverser on F4 HUD), and the assist pop ups can bug out from time to time which possibly doesn't help matters exactly (especially so in the case of resuming from a save, I'd advise against doing that!), but other than that I don't personally think its terribly difficult. There's no failures possible like on some engines and there's no tricky quirks like on the G2 so I'm genuinely curious what people are finding difficult.

kindest regards

Edward

I did say that my last post would be my last but in all fairness to Edward who hasn't responded other than in a calm, measured and helpful way (unlike some) I want to be clear
regarding my position.

The loco IS an advanced model WITH an assist mode for those who don't want to drive in a total advanced mode. I personally enjoy the total ambience of a loco running against it's route
scenery - an in cab view looking at the back of the firebox is hardly entertaining!

It is the assist mode function that is still causing me the issues I have already mentioned and which Edward clearly appreciates and acknowledges.

Hopefully the issue of the multiple warnings appearing will be addressed when Edward and Ben can get together on Ben's return. I will wait and see.

Tom5305
Doncaster

[fireman44]

Just on a different topic going back a bit, I do genuinely have to ask what people find difficult about the black five, as far as advanced locos go it is actually fairly tame in my opinion.

I am sure I could handle that, and that's why I bought it.

The key thing for me (and maybe it is different for other people) was that although I could place the loco in a scenario, I could not then move it to exactly the required position (such as to attach it to a train) without instantly crashing TS. I have never seen any other TS loco behave like that, including the G2.

I only drive my home-built scenarios. Until I know that issue no longer exists it is a no-go area for me. As I said, I will gladly re-purchase if that is resolved. Most of the other eight points I raised when I requested the refund have, apparently, been fixed.

[metrobus]

Ah, that is quite probably a side effect of the high memory usage the black five has (due to a large number of large textures), the black five memory usage is quite exceptionally high at around 1050mb of memory usage (by comparison the G2 is about 380mb), which given the game will crash somewhere around 3400mb, and routes can easily consume about 1500mb, doesn't give you an awful lot of wiggle room when it comes to extra locos/stock so you have to watch the memory usage in task manager like a hawk when writing scenarios for it.

One way to nullify the problem is to use the worst named option in the game "Scenery Quality" which is quite probably the most inaccurate description I've seen in a video game... Basically that option scales down ALL (not just scenery) textures to a degree (not sure by how much) which can have quite a significant effect on memory usage naturally given if you half a texture from say 4096x4096 to 2048x2048 the size will decrease four fold. So if a 4096 texture uses 100mb, the 2048 texture will use about 25mb.

Just have to be careful if you are uploading the scenario for others to use that you inform them that the scenario was created at a lower "scenery quality", as if they try to run it at a higher "scenery quality" the could simply crash while they attempt to load.

Kindest regards

Edward

[driverden]

If the game's auto fireman is used assist modes are not needed. The only slight complication in driving is using F5 and keyboard/mouse or keyboard to position the reverser, the other driving controls on F4 will work. Incidentally it's possible to control the colour of the smoke using the dampers.
Regards Dennis

[fireman44]

Ah, that is quite probably a side effect of the high memory usage the black five has (due to a large number of large textures), the black five memory usage is quite exceptionally high at around 1050mb of memory usage (by comparison the G2 is about 380mb), which given the game will crash somewhere around 3400mb, and routes can easily consume about 1500mb, doesn't give you an awful lot of wiggle room when it comes to extra locos/stock so you have to watch the memory usage in task manager like a hawk when writing scenarios for it.

Thanks for that - not so in my case I don't think as I was running at about 1.8 GB RAM (I run windowed with Task Manager alongside). I was able to place the loco fine, it was just subsequently repositioning it (even just a small distance) that gave the problem.

[tnleeuw01]

I find this loco an absolute joy to drive, and not so hard at all. Especially with my RailDriver properly set up for it.

The only drawback, apart from a tendency to crash US is that personally I find the Black 5 a rather boring engine actually!

I'd rather have a Schools class or Bulleid Pacific done to same standards!

But again, that's just a purely personal thing and I still enjoy driving the model.

Cheers,

--Tim

[jstange]

And another question from me please... are you also getting this red glow beneath the loco (from the firebox?)? Is it prototypical? Seems rather too intensive to me...

If I remember just close the damper mate, were very rare to run with both open
BR men used Rear damper only and used front if box were overloaded.

Yes, that's it! Thanks a lot! So you say the front dampers should generally be closed?

Regarding dampers if I may - just want to be sure: if I am going forward (boiler forward) I should be opening the front dampers to get more heat (and keep the rear dampers closed), and if I am going backwards (cab/tender forward) I should be opening the rear dampers (keeping front dampers closed). Is it so?

[1crick14a]

Yes, that's it! Thanks a lot! So you say the front dampers should generally be closed?

Regarding dampers if I may - just want to be sure: if I am going forward (boiler forward) I should be opening the front dampers to get more heat (and keep the rear dampers closed), and if I am going backwards (cab/tender forward) I should be opening the rear dampers (keeping front dampers closed). Is it so?

Forwards or Reverse we use the Back Damper as this was where the fire was at it thickest.

Doubt if it makes any difference in the Sim to be honest never tried it myself.

Small LMS and other regions with one damper which was usually at the front of
the grate would steam going in reverse the general rule was never get to much
up the front of the box.

This applied to Standard BR classes as well

ohanlon

[jstange]

OK, thanks! Just wonder why I read in most of the steam loco manuals that to use the dampers efficiently I should be opening the ones in the direction of travel... ?

From what you're saying it is more about the distribution of coal in the firebox which in my opinion is more logical...