VP/TPR Harrogate Loop

[tomhas2]

It seems to me that these days a select few though may be helping out with things tend to just look for issues that are wrong. Whilst i have been building this route weekly 8f not daily updates went out to our group for testing at vp. Not once did any issues such as ones like missing assets arrise. I have seen many fantastic screen shots of the route on here and facebook and all looks in place as should be.

People seem to just go on rwtools grab a list and assume alls missing but not once have i seen a screenshot of a location of a gap which would look obvious to something missing and therefore i cant really help. It seems to be a minority and not a majority. For that reason unless i see screenshot evidence of gaps and things that dont look right theres once again i cant do much.

There has been minor issues regards scenarios i have taken on board to fix which is great that people have mentioned along with other issues via facebook with scenery out of place thats been ammended. The best thing people can do regards to issues is please take a screenshot noting longitude and latitudes and attach with a descriptions of what is wrong and what you think needs doing to resolve them. Submit those via vps support system and one by one ill do my best to sort them.

There was a reason why i didnt upload the route directly to ukts and this was one because many people like to find fault straight away. I wont be responding to this thread no longer sadly. So please you the correct channels regards to bugs.

I hope you understand

Also thank you to the people who have praised and supported us from the start you have been great. I look forward to seeing more screenshots from you all

Tom

[jackbuzz]

almark / deltic009

I have been on these forums for a good number of years and I tend to read rather than post. There has always been a wide range of opinion expressed here, some of it worth reading and some of it not. Such is the nature of free speech. This reflects real life. As I've got older (v. late 50's now) I'm of the opinion that the world is full of idiots. They are in the workplace, on the train, they live on your street. They cannot be eradicated but they can be ignored. I've read all the pages of this thread and the vast majority of comments are from people who appreciate the hard work that has gone into producing this route. This free route! It is unfortunate that some posters seem to whinge about things being not perfect but I think the majority of people who have pointed out something not working as it should are working in the capacity of beta tester. I didn't interpret these comments as being sinister or overly critical. I might very easily be wrong.

I don't know almark or deltic009 personally but they are two of the people whose opinions I value and who make it worth reading this forum. I don't know if they will reconsider what they have said or not but I wish they would. For all those involved with the design and production of this route I want you to know that all your efforts are greatly appreciated. There will always be someone who criticises what you have done but there will be a hundredfold number of people who support you.

All the best for the New Year

Paul

[220389]

Did test the route and myself came across no issues. If did do so I would have reported it.

Problem with testing you may have no issues at all in your test groups but others may do so. Know from experience from Killing Floor 1 last map packs, Rising Storm 1 & 2 and various TS projects. Nothing can be fully covered, as everyone’s systems are different and with TS it gets even more complex.

Chris

[david1]

It seems to me that these days a select few though may be helping out with things tend to just look for issues that are wrong. Whilst i have been building this route weekly 8f not daily updates went out to our group for testing at vp. Not once did any issues such as ones like missing assets arrise. I have seen many fantastic screen shots of the route on here and facebook and all looks in place as should be.

Well I have not noticed any missing assets, although I have not run in through RWTools looking for something, I have completed the whole loop and in just looks fantastic, hope these poor comments do not stop you continuing the sceanary on the mainline, the line is just stunning and a very good job has been done, know doubt the people with missing assets have failed to read and have the all the needed routes installed.

[Tom5305]

I am sure that constructive comments (not criticism) are always helpful and genuine errors are usually addressed by route creators who
are only too happy for such information. However we all have families, work and everything in between to cope with and I can only say
that I am astounded at the generosity of the people on here who share their excellent work, which often equals and betters some
payware on offer.
I hope Tom is not deterred from progressing the route in the future.

[smarty2]

Is it really a case of bad criticism or a bunch of people trying to help each other out? Must admit I am a little confused about where "all" this criticism is? It is always sad when individuals can and do sometimes misinterpret what is being said about their work, but not once have I seen in this thread words that describe what has been freely given as bad or wrong or rubbish? In fact, reading through the thread has highlighted 99.9% praise. Matt pointed out the constraints surrounding the release of the route and I am pretty sure no one took that as being bolshy or stroppy, except perhaps one individual? I certainly didn't. Tom, you have put an enormous amount of time and effort into this brilliant resurrection of a once thought of as lost route! Don't let the perception of ungratefulness deter you from posting or responding to posts, that goes to Matt and Mark, we enjoy communicating with you on UKTS even though we may not see eye to eye sometimes. It is very easy to burn bridges but very hard to rebuild them, as a UKTS friend I ask you to reconsider your positions. And besides, it's the first day of a new year! Of which I wish a happy one, to one and all!

Sincerely

Mart

[Will]

....And here we go again Always an individual or two who jump on the wagon and decide to take an "attitude" and indirectly ruin it for everybody else.

I wouldn't normally speak up regarding "dramas" but this really has bothered me.

I stopped making any content for this website for a while (Not that anybody probably missed it as it wasn't 100% accurate on any count) mostly due to the nitpickers and rivet counters that were here. It's good to see I've not missed much and not much has changed. Sadly to say and see Mark, Matt, Tom & Chris have been driven away (Or visit far & few between if you prefer). You can really tell it's gone down hill here (before I get jumped on being hounded for an example) a prime reason being nobody really posts anything like they used to in the screenshots area. I used to enjoy seeing what was being worked on but I put the emphasis on "used" as there's no enjoyment now because as soon as you post anything that isn't 100% accurate or correct by "real world standards" the rivet counter(s) arrive and you seem to get critisism for the most minor points. I will point out here that it's not entirely dead, you still have members like Nick who posts really nice screenshots, there are others as well to cover myself from the impending "its not dead how can you say that!!"

Fair enough if it's constructive, but 9 out of 10 times it isn't. You can tell people have been driven away, take a look at the screenshot thread for Train Sim....hardly anything going on.

I have to say that Mart's post & Paul's post above and further up have made about the most sense in all of this. Not that I'm playing both sides but I see and empathise where Matt & Mark, and Tom are coming from. I've experienced critisism via emails for something not being exactly 100% right. Isn't it a great time when you make free content and you get slated & critisism for a detail not being 100% accurate? Brilliant. There's my two pence worth. Do as you all want with it. I expect my post will be broken down shortly and It'll be proven why I'm wrong and that I need to provide examples as there's no evidence to back it up, etc. That's all I'll say on the subject. Not interested on it any further than this.

Won't be long and I think I'll follow the VP guys and jump ship.

[smarty2]

But Will.... Won't the "rats" just jump ship as well? I understand where you are coming from though as I too have all but stopped uploading scenario's because of the "rivet" counters, however, I do feel that having a bit of a harder skin especially these days (sadly), should be a requirement? I know it's hard especially when someone has put vast amounts of time and effort into producing something when the naysayers have done diddly squat and just seem happy to be malcontents! Ignore em is my advice and block them if necessary.

[gptech]

Must admit I am a little confused about where "all" this criticism is?

As the individual probably perceived as the 'villain of the piece' I have to respond.

Nowhere in this thread has anybody slated the route or the effort put in by Tom and the so far unsung heroes of the TPR team; no one has slated the work put in by VP in making the route available. We're all aware that we're looking at the work of a bunch of amateurs; like all contributors to UKTS and other sites, folk doing things in their spare time for the love of it (hopefully anyway)
It's undeniable though that the installation is *incomplete*--the route calls for an asset that isn't included, nor available elsewhere and one that's incorrectly pathed. Trivial errors and nobody has made a fuss about those, merely pointing out where the *error* lies and where it (most likely) came from.
The closest to criticism has been my post:

Are we possibly seeing these wee glitches due to a last minute rush to get the latest and greatest AP stock pack in the mix, and things not being fully tested because of the time constraints?

..a question, not a complaint. the words "wee glitches" for those who may not understand a more Northerly vernacular translate as "tiny, inconsequential, easily fixed". In other words an attempt to explain why those errors in scenarios had/could have crept in. We all should be by now aware that even the smallest change to a scenario can throw a huge spanner in the works, and testing of an edited scenario involves much more than a quick run through with RW Tools and just checking that it loads in the game. In other words, are we looking at the consequences of last minute changes to scenarios rather than a deeper issue within the route infrastructure.
Anyone who's done any testing/editing of scenarios will be well aware that that testing process can take far longer than the time taken to run the scenario. As Matthew confirmed (and yes Martin, I did take his response as 'bolshy', hence my terse response to the response) time constraints have been a factor. Read my post again, and ask yourself "if he wanted to make a fuss wouldn't it have been easier to just throw a strop over the basic error of having a service set off earlier than the one 20 yards in front of it so that it runs into the back of that stationary service?"

If my post has been misunderstood due to the phrasing I'll happily apologise for how it was written, but it wasn't an attempt to denigrate the route at all; I'd like to claim that I've done as much as anybody else contributing to this thread to aid others get the route up and running, it's a line local to me in areas I know very well and I'm delighted to see it has eventually seen the light of day when all's said and done!

[crodchris07]

Just downloaded this route and it looks fabulous and incredibly detailed. I live and work in Leeds. I have missing platforms though. I installed the freeware asset packs. I can't think of what else to do to get the platforms? Any Ideas folks?

Adding on to this I am unable to purchase the ECML modern on the Creative Rail website. I have therefore contacted them.

[adburgess1992]

But Will.... Won't the "rats" just jump ship as well? I understand where you are coming from though as I too have all but stopped uploading scenario's because of the "rivet" counters, however, I do feel that having a bit of a harder skin especially these days (sadly), should be a requirement? I know it's hard especially when someone has put vast amounts of time and effort into producing something when the naysayers have done diddly squat and just seem happy to be malcontents! Ignore em is my advice and block them if necessary.

We have the advantage of a much more organsised, wider reaching,willing and able to help in a more moderated way on other platforms elsewhere is the main difference so the rats do follow generally dont tend to last long or are quickly dealt with in comparison to here where first order of buisness here is to rip it apart and find whats wrong wether the intention was constructive or not that and telling us how we think or act as if its fact without any consideration for actaull truth and the time, work and amount of people involved. We never claimed to be proffesionals nor are we amateurs we just like to create stuff for people enjoy to a quality we are happy with and I genuinly struggle to think of any version 1.0 of a 3rd party route that didnt have issues upon release that required a varied amount of content.

My posts and vists here have decreased in the years gone by as its only gone downhill from my view and after this safe to say they will reduce even more if not not vising at all.

[smarty2]

Well, I am sorry that all this appears to have grown into something that wasn't really in this thread or intentional? Not from my reading of it, generally I find I just don't post if people are being tetchy or ungrateful unless they are directing those posts at me specifically, but sadly it appears that the good folk over at VP seem to be determined to cut themselves off from what is essentially and generally a friendly and helpful place? Personalities aside.

generally don't tend to last long or are quickly dealt with

I am not quite sure what you are saying here Ash.. Are you only surrounding yourselves with people that always agree with you and keep you snug and warm and do not rock the boat or are you saying something else here?

[adburgess1992]

Well, I am sorry that all this appears to have grown into something that wasn't really in this thread or intentional? Not from my reading of it, generally I find I just don't post if people are being tetchy or ungrateful unless they are directing those posts at me specifically, but sadly it appears that the good folk over at VP seem to be determined to cut themselves off from what is essentially and generally a friendly and helpful place? Personalities aside.

generally don't tend to last long or are quickly dealt with

I am not quite sure what you are saying here Ash.. Are you only surrounding yourselves with people that always agree with you and keep you snug and warm and do not rock the boat or are you saying something else here?

Never said that the forum wasnt a friendly or helpful place just isnt vocalised as much compared to the cult of personalities appearing in every thread.

Not surrounding ourselves with people who agree with us just in a places where the ratio of "wibble" as its starting to be refferd to is far less commen and dominating instead were actual issues are solved behind the scenes in an understandable time and manor or with the help of those other people who choose to use the same platforms for the reason I stated in my previous reply. Considering VP started of as 3-5 people and now up to 9-13 people give or take there roles and how active they all are all came from other platforms than here. Overall generally I just cant find a reason to come here anymore and this probably will be one of my last posts for a long time.

[smarty2]

Well, that would be a shame Ash, and for the others too.

[rikwesson]

Hi, could anyone point me in the right direction for the Northern Belle Mk1 and Mk2 coaches please.

Many thanks, Richard