There will be an APT-P DLC!!!

[dgm486]

I agree, let’s all give DTG credit for creating a fabulous piece of dlc that is so enjoyable to drive. Hopefully enough of us will have voted with our wallets to encourage them to do more of the same.

[749006]

What I meant is that it's a DLC of too much quality if it had been developed exclusively by DTG, and that collaboration clarifies it.

Oh yawn, nobody knows who has done what, but the driving force through the whole project has been TrainSim_Steve, firmly a Dovetail employee.

Can people not enjoy and applaud something without finding some reason to bitch and moan about Dovetail Games for once? It's pathetic tbh[/quote]
You can get fed up with the people who are quick to put DTG down.

I think this is a great Add-on and many thanks to TrainSim_Steve and the rest of the team for binging this train to the game

Peter

[deltic009]

Could you please edit your post if possible, as it's making it look. Like I'm the one having a dig at DTG.

[gptech]

What I meant is that it's a DLC of too much quality if it had been developed exclusively by DTG, and that collaboration clarifies it.

Oh yawn, nobody knows who has done what, but the driving force through the whole project has been TrainSim_Steve, firmly a Dovetail employee.

Can people not enjoy and applaud something without finding some reason to bitch and moan about Dovetail Games for once? It's pathetic tbh

You can get fed up with the people who are quick to put DTG down.
I think this is a great Add-on and many thanks to TrainSim_Steve and the rest of the team for binging this train to the game

Peter

[IronBidder]

With any project it's the end result that matters. Who did what is largely irrelevant and team DTG have produced a great piece of DLC here.

Let's encourage them by purchase and praise and we are likely to get more like it, which is what I assume we all want.

[gptech]

encourage them by purchase and praise and we are likely to get more like it, which is what I assume we all want.

Exactly...many UKTS members seem to still believe that we, and those from other forums who think like us with regard to more advanced/complex/complicated/odd ball stuff, make up DTG's main customer base. We ain't; we're probably a small percentage of what they target at---the Steam user base; disposable income and "play it a couple of times and then buy something else" market. The APT-P pack shows that the advanced stuff and the simpler stuff can go hand in hand; it's not hard to get to grips with despite it's "extras* so if it yields good sales figures (no, I've no idea of the definition of "good") the chances of more of this ilk are improved.

[smarty2]

Back on topic.... I'll point this question to you Gary old pal? And apologies if this has already been asked? Could the script for the tilt on the APT be added to the 390 and regio swinger? Since it is more realistic.

[749006]

Could you please edit your post if possible, as it's making it look. Like I'm the one having a dig at DTG.

Apologies Matt - it went beyond the time limit.

I realise you were highlighting the work of TrainSim_Steve and the team.
Gary corrected my error - again

Peter

[deltic009]

Back on topic.... I'll point this question to you Gary old pal? And apologies if this has already been asked? Could the script for the tilt on the APT be added to the 390 and regio swinger? Since it is more realistic.

I'm not 100% sure you can because node names will be different and the script won't be editable. I'm looking into what to do about the fact that the passenger view doesn't tilt at all, let alone the camera follow the tilt like in the cab.

[smarty2]

That would be a pity, I would love to see it in those two as well!

[Springer6]

So, to apply "scenario specific changes to the track's properties", you would need to edit the scenario's " ScenarioNetworkProperties.bin file" ?

No, you'd need to create one---scenarios don't have this file until they're set up to alter how a route behaves/looks, just like scenarios don't have a Scenery folder until you add scenario specific scenic assets such as a group of workmen, often used in scenarios that have you driving at a lower speed through engineering works.

As before, I haven't tried this but create a brand new, blank scenario for the route. Load that scenario in the scenario editor--very important that you DON'T edit the route, but just the scenario.
Use the selection tool, middle left flyout, wee box with orange(?) dotted outline, to select a chunk of track you want to apply a new speed limit to. Change the speed in the properties box on the right of the monitor.
I wouldn't get too carried away, just do a shortish stretch to start with---enough for a test run with the APT, so make sure you edit where the scenario you're mucking about with runs.


Pressing the space bar will cycle through the track's properties, as denoted by it turning into lines of solid colour---3rd press I think brings up the speeds so you'll see the stretch you've edited in a different colour. A quick check is to drop into the World Editor by clicking on the track icon in the middle left flyout and repeating the spacebar presses---the track should show as having no changes to the track speeds. Back into the scenario editor by pressing the 'scenario tools' icon, top left flyout, top row, far right, looks like the front of a Voyager and d the spacebar routine again. This time it should be back to the edited version.


Save the scenario. This will create the ScenarioNetworkProperties.xml file in that scenario's folder. Copy that file into the folder of the scenario featuring the APT and in theory you'll see the new speed limits.

Thanks Gary, this method works very well. On WCMLN, I have been able to convert a section of track from 125mph running to 155 mph in the Scenerio Editor and as you say , it has no effect upon the World Editor route. The C-APT system, once activated by a C-APT start maker, picks up all speed limits including the new 155 mph one. However , with all the other limits i.e. the WCMLN default "World Editor applied ones" the C-APT gives advance warning of change of speed, there are no warnings given when approaching or about to leave the Scenario Editor applied 155 limit. I suspect that the advance warnings that are received are generated by the World Editor speed signs, as the C-APT does not pick up for example the 15 mph final approach to Glasgow Central for which there are no speed signs , hidden or otherwise. Yet on the default APT scenarios on WCMLoS the C-APT does pick up the advance warning of the scenario generated speed limits

I can't see a way of applying a speed sign in Scenario Editor. Does anyone have any ideas ? I have yet to figure out how the developers have done this on WCMLoS.

[gptech]

However , with all the other limits i.e. the WCMLN default "World Editor applied ones" the C-APT gives advance warning of change of speed, there are no warnings given when approaching or about to leave the Scenario Editor applied 155 limit. I suspect that the advance warnings that are received are generated by the World Editor speed signs,

I'd say your thinking was the "wrong way round"; the speed signs take their information from the track rather than determine what the track limit is. You won't get any advance warnings from anything unless there's an asset placed to give that warning---think AWS ramp. Accordingly, check the WCMLoS scenarios to see if any C-APT magnets are placed 'x' metres/yards before a speed change.
Bear in mind that all you're doing is World Editor stuff, applied at Scenario level, so the basic rules/conventions apply. As noted earlier, this pack does not add anything particularly new, just uses what we've had for a few years to change track properties on a scenario by scenario basis. so there're no new techniques to master.

EDIT:...may be worthwhile diving *underground* to see if any magnets/links are hidden away.

[metrobus]

Just to prevent any wasted effort, I will say that the magnets you see along the route at speed limits are purely scenery items and do absolutely nothing to the C-APT system. The only magnets which actually do anything are the C-APT start/stop markers and the junction start/stop magnets. The C-APT system has a flaw in that existing speed limits can sometimes block the system from detecting a downward change, I'm not sure what exactly causes it to get blocked but I think its down to how the redefined speed limits were done, possibly something relating to track ribbons. Also changes down need to be done at existing speed limit boards as you may not get any warning at all if C-APT fails to detect. Changes up should ideally be done at existing boards too.

Just to illustrate the C-APT problem

CAPT .png

(4.1 KiB) Downloaded 60 times

The C-APT system works by calling whether there is an speed limit change anywhere between 0 and more or less infinity ahead. It will only detect the first speed limit it notices, not anything after. That includes limits which are actually the same as the existing limit. In the first case there is a rogue 155 limit for whatever reason (it happens). This blocks the C-APT from detecting the 75 limit until it is much too late and isn't able to give the player enough warning.

In the 2nd illustration the track before has had the 155 limit relayed some distance back (like 3 miles) of the speed limit board for the 75 drop which should hopefully prevent the 155 limit from being broken up, allowing the C-APT to give you the correct braking distance. That's the theory at any rate. It requires a lot of relaying and testing to make sure it is all behaving.

regards

Edward

[Springer6]

Thanks to both gptech and metrobus for your responses and advice.

I have had a look underground on WCMLoS, but as yet, I have not been able to work out what is going on with the speed changes.

I have used the C-APT transponders successfully for C-APT start and stop ( once passed the "C-APT Start" activates the system to detect all speed limit changes with advanced warning sounds). On the WCMLoS APT default and template scenarios, It also detects in advance the enhanced speed limits ( e.g. 155 mph) in the very same way . It also shows those enhanced limits on the HUD. In my experience HUD displays of speed limits are generated by speed signs applied to the track ( from which they get their speed value of course). Indeed I have often applied "sunken" speed signs to enable speed limits to display on the HUD when none existed , such as on some of the Swiss routes. The issue is to discover what is causing the WCMLoS APT enhanced limits to display on the HUD and also give advance warning of changes. I'll keep looking !
Other C-APT transponders are of course the Junction and Junction End ( these latter turn the "J " on and off). However there is also a C-APT transponder ( No message), I'm not sure what that does ?
Also the Start and Stop transponders have "box" to apply a "speed limit", but applying one does not seem to have any effect ?

One success, following Gary's advice, I have been able to copy and paste the "ScenarioNetworkProperties.bin" and the"ScenarioNetworkProperties".xml" files from one of the default APT scenarios and paste it into a cloned original WCMLoS scenario which I changed to feature the APT. This "new" APT scenario then had all the C-APT features of the APT supplied ones, enhanced limits displayed on HUD with full audible warnings. So if someone could crack the method of producing these ScenarioNetworkProperties files just once for say the main runs in WCMLN and WCMLTv, these files could then be used for any enhanced speed APT scenarios designed in the future.

Thanks again for your responses

[Springer6]

This "new" APT scenario then had all the C-APT features of the APT supplied ones, enhanced limits displayed on HUD with full audible warnings. So if someone could crack the method of producing these ScenarioNetworkProperties files just once for say the main runs in WCMLN and WCMLTv, these files could then be used for any enhanced speed APT scenarios designed in the future.

Just been peering into the depths of this scenario, which has the APT default speed template for WCMLoS installed as described before. I noticed a couple of places where the C-APT speed changed without a HUD display of it being present and there was no audible C-APT advanced warning. This seemingly was because the APT supplied speed template had changed the track speed, where there was no original World Editor speed change and therefore no speed sign.

Most speed changes ( i.e. the Scenario Editor ones) in the template had been arranged so that they were co-incident with the World Editor speed changes and hence ( mostly ) with the speed signs. I suspected that instead of requiring some sort of Scenario Editor speed sign, the APT system is merely using the existing speed signs now connected to the Scenario Edited track speed to display the changed ( i.e. increased ) speed limits on the HUD , but not on the sign itself ( I have noticed that speed signs have to be re-installed to get the physical display to change). Therefore is the C-APT system picking up it's advanced audible warnings from the speed signs ? I'm not sure if any of this makes sense , but opinions please ?