Atomic Systems

k3v1n989a813 wrote:You cannot expect any average person to be "surprised" at these subtle differences.

I don't expect any person be they 'average' or otherwise to be anything in regard to these.

But I am glad you now accept that there are visual differences between these DLC. I will now sleep soundly tonight,

Richard

I'm having bother trying to get my head around any train simmer being anything like the average person...... Admit it, we're NOT normal

Has anybody tried the 2 versions of the 319 as AI yet., or do I have to supply screenshots?

gptech wrote:I'm having bother trying to get my head around any train simmer being anything like the average person...... Admit it, we're NOT normal

Has anybody tried the 2 versions of the 319 as AI yet., or do I have to supply screenshots?

such a silly question you will need to supply screenshots

gptech wrote:I'm having bother trying to get my head around any train simmer being anything like the average person...... Admit it, we're NOT normal

Has anybody tried the 2 versions of the 319 as AI yet., or do I have to supply screenshots?

You have to supply screenshots!

Ok Danny that may be true but it would not of hurt them to take it to waterloo would it I mean most routes are city to city depending on the size of route of course,I feel they are a bit slap dash in some of there work and are only there for the money.
A few examples from city - city or bigger areas paddington - oxford,london - brighton,liverpool - manchester,edingburgh - glasgow,london - peterborough,preston - carlisle.
I'm not sure if london - brighton came out first or portsmouth - working but theyve got clapham and victoria so why not put waterloo in.

k3v1n989a813 wrote:

rfletcher72 wrote:There is at least one very visible difference. Take a look and be surprised,

I'm shocked! All this time I've been missing it... they've added a sticker on the right cab window!

But wait! There's more... they've changed the colour of the handle on the front cab door!

On a serious note though, the only obvious difference I see is the snowplow. You cannot expect any average person to be "surprised" at these subtle differences.

Standalone Version
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam ... 1460556704

BedPan Version
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam ... 1467980570

The Stand alone 319 is 319/0, while the Bed - Pan is 319/1 when built. The 319/1s were built after the 321s, which is AC version of the 319s with different traction motors, so the body is 321s with changes to the body for the tunnel sections and keeping with 319/0 body design and was fitted with first class with smoking section, this changed when Thameslink refurbished them, they removed first class from the 319/1s changing them to 319/3s, the 319/0s that had at that time was fitted with first class and the seating between the doors reduced to 2 seats each side, the extra two seat frames came from 7 319/0s that were refurbished by Connex South Central to 319/2 which had all their seats replaced with chapman seats, first class, a disabled toilet in place one of the toilets and seats, and a 'Bar area' around the power cable in the PMSO this where the trolley was kept with the doors in this section locked out for public use. With the new disable toilets being installed the side of the 319s in the TSOL is changed with the toilet side is blank while the side where the other toilet was is replaced with a fullsize window with seats reduced to single seats. The former parcel section behind one the cabs being removed and replaced with full seating and not the side benches which could fold up when parcel section was in used. So the two 319 DLCs are different sub-classes.

I always check what I will get in the DLC if I have the train or if there is two DLCs with the same train, is there a different between them and usually if you have the same DLC train that is in the DLC they will give you a discount, if they didn't they would more than likely lose that sale until the next sale. I have class 70s from the standalone and SWC each came with different wagons and the livery is different with the standalone it is as delivered while the SWC version has the new owners plastered on them.

749006 wrote:it's just my objection in paying for something twice.

gptech wrote:Think more along the lines of stock bundled with routes as a 'free gift' rather than an excuse to rip you off.

tornados wrote:so why not put waterloo in.

Maybe they're saving Waterloo for yet another capital based route featuring other places in routes you already have modelled just to really hack you off? If it upsets you so much, turn the game off and read a book---may I suggest the Oxford English Dictionary?

gptech wrote:just extract the scenario from the .zip archive that will be in that folder whose name I've forgotten. I'm at work so can't check, but will in the morning.

Thanks to a post in another thread I've no need to do any checking....

Spinger6 wrote:the workshop downloads seem to be in "Steam/steamapps/workshop/content/24010"

tornados wrote:Ok Danny that may be true but it would not of hurt them to take it to waterloo would it I mean most routes are city to city depending on the size of route of course,I feel they are a bit slap dash in some of there work and are only there for the money.
A few examples from city - city or bigger areas paddington - oxford,london - brighton,liverpool - manchester,edingburgh - glasgow,london - peterborough,preston - carlisle.
I'm not sure if london - brighton came out first or portsmouth - working but theyve got clapham and victoria so why not put waterloo in.

Woking to Portsmouth was first, then London to Brighton came after that (at least a year after), however if it were only that easy to put both routes together (it isn't I've been asked many times to join them but can't because of their Route points of origin unfortunately). However not all routes are City to City as you say, London to Faversham (a town), Settle to Carlisle come to mind.

(to note - please don't shoot the messenger )

rosschris10 wrote:

ALl well and good bashing dtg here but only just recently incase you have forgotten a certain developer who released a route on there site then released the route through dtg/steam funny there is no mention of that though

To be honest Ross this isn't really relevant to the original post. AP are just expanding their customer base and you cannot really blame any business for doing so if they are given the opportunity. I don't see many 'bashing' DTG here, all I see are honest opinions that the OP
was asking for.

pjt1974 wrote:To be honest Ross this isn't really relevant to the original post.

Not to the original post certainly Phil, but the way the thread has progressed has opened things up a bit. Of course if it carries on that way we'll get to discussing the rationale behind UKTS members releasing an update to a route that calls for assets from another payware route, thus giving the end user yet more expense.
The *complaint* is, at heart, about *having* to pay for stuff.
In the fictitious route example just given the answer would be "you don't have to buy it, swap stuff with RW Tools" which is true and also holds in the case of Workshop scenarios calling for DLC you may not own.
Part of the problem is unawareness of what's actually involved with Workshop stuff, how the Steam delivery system works and where (and how) to look for stuff. Also, for one member there seems to be a huge misunderstanding about what it takes to make 3D assets and how to build a route.
If you examine how other payware providers are selling their stuff you'll soon find that DTG aren't the only ones *selling* us the same stuff twice (or more) so citing the *issue* as being a DTG one is a little biased. The bottom line is, as always, if you don't want to pay for something do without---or make your own.

rosschris10 wrote:As others have said already the differences between the stand alone 319 and 378 the later release was in fact a update so improves the train

So why not update the 319 purchased separately to the same standard as the Bed-Pan 319 and the two would be compatible.

rosschris10 wrote:ALl well and good bashing dtg here but only just recently incase you have forgotten a certain developer who released a route on there site then released the route through dtg/steam funny there is no mention of that though

I assume you refer to a route in East Anglia?
I don't see any problem - the original route works and I believe the Steam version installs to the same folder so Workshop Scenarios are ok.
And I don't see anyone who purchased the original to buy the same again from another provider.

Peter

rfletcher72 wrote:

k3v1n989a813 wrote:You cannot expect any average person to be "surprised" at these subtle differences.

I don't expect any person be they 'average' or otherwise to be anything in regard to these.

But I am glad you now accept that there are visual differences between these DLC. I will now sleep soundly tonight,

Richard

Well, if you're able to spot the minute differences then surely you would able to spot the fact that I wrote

k3v1n989a813 wrote:no *notable* visual differences and the same sounds.

In my opinion slightly different snowplows aren't really considered to be "very visible" to me, especially at first glance. I was hoping you'd point out something that really did surprise me.

gptech wrote:If you examine how other payware providers are selling their stuff you'll soon find that DTG aren't the only ones *selling* us the same stuff twice (or more) so citing the *issue* as being a DTG one is a little biased. The bottom line is, as always, if you don't want to pay for something do without---or make your own.

You will have to correct me - as you usually have to - but if you refer to a producer of German stock then although different versions come out separately some are different - but I do agree with you.
There was a european route released recently which did include an EMU which was available as a standalone - so like DTG they got money out of people twice if they wanted the route having purchased the unit.

Peter

sealion wrote: Standalone Version
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam ... 1460556704
BedPan Version
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam ... 1467980570
The Stand alone 319 is 319/0, while the Bed - Pan is 319/1 when built. So the two 319 DLCs are different sub-classes.

From Wikipedia
The 319/3 units are all in the same sub class and were converted from 319/1 in the period 1997-99
Units 319001–319013 are the remaining members of the 319/0 subclass; all others were converted to Class 319/2 or Class 319/4 in the late 1990s

Both the 319's in the pictures are numbered as 319/3 even though that is wrong.

Peter