Dtg class 59dbs coming soon

[jimmyshand]

DTG would indeed do well on the Apprentice!

Class 59 is basically little more than a class 66 reskin, minimal effort on their part. Coupled with another identikit London route. In a nutshell, a new product that is nothing more than a slight re-hash of what already exists. Minimal effort, maximum profit. Even more blatant was the Riviera 1950's route for TS2016. The existing Riviera just backwards engineered slightly.
Not fooling me though. I haven't bought a DTG product for a considerable period of time and I won't until they start putting some effort in, creating something genuinely new and unique and sorting out their sounds department.

I find this interesting - when a workshop Third Party did a revision of the Riviera Line to put in a different time period - the community went nuts on how great it was ---- now that DTG did the same - we get how lazy they are ---- just saying



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A workshop third party revision of the Riviera Line is free and costs nothing. If you want the DTG revision you have to pay £29.99 to get the full version of TS2016. No thanks, poor show. The collective might and experience of developers and artists at DTG should be able to create the newest, most broad ranging, technically challenging, most unique new routes imaginable. Until they start delivering what they are capable of and provide proper value, I'll be keeping my wallet firmly closed. It's been a long time since I bought a DTG product and I'm mostly making do now with the wealth of stuff I already have. I've wasted way too much on re-skin or slightly re-engineered duplication to last a lifetime.

Something to dazzle please DTG... North Wales Coast? Exeter to Plymouth? Welsh Valleys? Bristol to Birmingham New Street? Plymouth to Penzance? Exeter to Waterloo? Bristol/Bath/Swindon? Cambrian Coast? Birmingham to Crewe/Chester? Merseyrail?

[gptech]

Yes Andy, but there's a right way to do it.

[rfletcher72]

Even more blatant was the Riviera 1950's route for TS2016. The existing Riviera just backwards engineered slightly.
Not fooling me though. I haven't bought a DTG product for a considerable period of time

Not fooling me either with this statement.

If understood correctly, you do not own the 1950's Riviera route therefore. If you did, then perhaps you would revisit the somewhat amusing assertion that it is merely the current day route 'just backwards engineered slightly'.

I often question whether some commentators on Dovetail this and Dovetail that, whether they actually own the subject matter in the first place. Thanks for confirming perhaps that in this case, my suspicions were not without foundation.

Been much comment of late on people's rights to voice opinions on DLC be they positive or negative - but I would have thought that owning said DLC was a pre-requisite to giving that opinion, and perhaps more importantly for others to take any notice also ,

[749006]

Yes Andy, but there's a right way to do it.

I agree.

It's ok to complain about something that is wrong after it's released but Before it comes out is just stupid.

A bit like when RSC did the London to Brighton line and before it was released people slagged them off for not having a third rail in the WIP pictures.

Peter

[gptech]

Perhaps they think WIP means "We Insist (it's) Perfect" Peter?

[jimmyshand]

You don't need to own the 1950's Riviera to know it's just a backwards engineered version of the original... Of course it is. Of all the routes in the UK they could have chosen to showcase TS2016 they decide to backwards engineer the Riviera which we already have.
I would have paid for TS2016 had it included a new route or even a variation on the Riviera such as the line to Plymouth. As it happens they did not so I did not.

[xguerra]

I really like it.

Is that ok by everyone?

[atlasduff47]

Yes Andy, but there's a right way to do it.

I agree.

It's ok to complain about something that is wrong after it's released but Before it comes out is just stupid.

A bit like when RSC did the London to Brighton line and before it was released people slagged them off for not having a third rail in the WIP pictures.

Peter

I agree that to complain about item specifics before something comes out is not very wise, but surely people can question things such as choice of route or loco to be produced, without directly slating a specific item of DLC.

[
Been much comment of late on people's rights to voice opinions on DLC be they positive or negative - but I would have thought that owning said DLC was a pre-requisite to giving that opinion, and perhaps more importantly for others to take any notice also ,

So nobody can have an opinion on anything they don't own? I don't own a Lamborghini, but I can tell you, for example that they are quite fast, and I should point out that pre-release, all opinions/comments are equally valid, and carry the same weight until the point is proven one way or the other

As I have said above, I think it is perfectly fine to say something along the lines of 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' without getting stick for being a DTG basher.

[atlasduff47]

I really like it.

Is that ok by everyone?

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion sir!

[rfletcher72]

As I have said above, I think it is perfectly fine to say something along the lines of 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' without getting stick for being a DTG basher.

Andy,

In my view there is a world of difference between 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' and the claim that 50's Riviera is a slightly modified version of the modern route.

My point (perhaps I could have worded it more succinctly) is that if bold statements such as the one highlighted are to be made, then I would at the very least feel that ownership of the subject of one's opinion is a must,

[atlasduff47]

As I have said above, I think it is perfectly fine to say something along the lines of 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' without getting stick for being a DTG basher.

Andy,

In my view there is a world of difference between 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' and the claim that 50's Riviera is a slightly modified version of the modern route.

My point (perhaps I could have worded it more succinctly) is that if bold statements such as the one highlighted are to be made, then I would at the very least feel that ownership of the subject of one's opinion is a must,

I would agree that to comment on specifics of a piece of released DLC, ownership is a pre-requisite......incidentally I won't be buying the 59, but it looks pretty good.

[gptech]

I think it is perfectly fine to say something along the lines of 'I would have preferred them to make a different route' without getting stick for being a DTG basher.

I agree completely; I'd much rather prefer Leeds to Manchester Victoria modelled but that doesn't mean I'm right.

The statement

Class 59 is basically little more than a class 66 reskin, minimal effort on their part. Coupled with another identikit London route. In a nutshell, a new product that is nothing more than a slight re-hash of what already exists. Minimal effort, maximum profit. Even more blatant was the Riviera 1950's route for TS2016. The existing Riviera just backwards engineered slightly.

however, goes much further than simply expressing a preference for a different route and could be read as an example of a thread being hijacked to have a DTG 'bash' as this thread is entitled "Dtg class 59dbs coming soon"---nothing to do with the Riviera 50s route!

Fine if any other route supports or refutes a point to bring it into the thread as long as what is written can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that it's factual. Claims were made that are simply not true, as the responses from those who are better able to compare both the original and 50s versions of Riviera have shown; claims that could also be considered as libellous or defamatory. No alternative (preferred) route was offered up for discussion either, so what you (and most of us) consider to be fine to write moves even further away from what was written.

So far we've seen a few WIP images of NLL, so unless jimmy has seen more I'm amazed that he can tell that the NLL is just "another identikit London route"; I haven't noticed London Victoria or Kings Cross in any of the shots I've seen.

[atlasduff47]

The statement

Class 59 is basically little more than a class 66 reskin, minimal effort on their part. Coupled with another identikit London route. In a nutshell, a new product that is nothing more than a slight re-hash of what already exists. Minimal effort, maximum profit. Even more blatant was the Riviera 1950's route for TS2016. The existing Riviera just backwards engineered slightly.

Claims were made that are simply not true, as the responses from those who are better able to compare both the original and 50s versions of Riviera have shown

So far we've seen a few WIP images of NLL, so unless jimmy has seen more I'm amazed that he can tell that the NLL is just "another identikit London route"; I haven't noticed London Victoria or Kings Cross in any of the shots I've seen.

My initial point was a broad one which was people should be able to express negativity as well as choosing not to buy a product, as opposed to simply keeping quiet and not purchase by means of protest, which I stand by.

I agree that the statement Jimmy made about the 50's Riviera line has been challenged and has seemingly been refuted, has anyone reported the post?

I have not at any stage defended any specific statements made by others, and have agreed that to criticise specifics of a released product is fine, as long as it is evidence based and you preferably own the DLC in question. The alternative route example, was merely a way to try to put across what I thought was OK to say and what wasn't, not what I thought anybody else had said/tried to say (perhaps put clumsily).

Whether I think he is right or wrong, Jimmy's opinion on a yet to be released route is as valid as mine, yours or anyone else's until such a point as the route comes out and we can all see exactly what it is like, it may be good bad or indifferent.

[theorganist]

Whether I think he is right or wrong, Jimmy's opinion on a yet to be released route is as valid as mine, yours or anyone else's until such a point as the route comes out and we can all see exactly what it is like, it may be good bad or indifferent.

They are valid in as much as he has as much right to make them but for me any reason to take his comments serious are wiped out by crass remarks about a route he has not got and I suspect has seen nothing but a few screenshots of.

Anyone who has both routes, as I have can tell that the steam era route is not slightly re-engineered, he also conveniently fails to mention the five steam loco's with custom sound sets, three rakes of coaches with very good sounds, and several wagons also with very good wagon sound. But as he doesn't have the route he would not know this!

It is plain and simple another round of DTG bashing and quite frankly is scraping the barrel as DTG seemingly have upped their game.

I have spent so much time on the Riviera 1950's line, for me purchasing TS2016 has been by far my best investment in the simulator yet.

Peter

[rosschris10]

I agree that as well the 50s riviera is a fantastic route and is not a copy of the old one. And the amount of stock you get is a real bonus many hours so far driving on that route.

What people seem to forget is dtg is a business and without the business they would close and if dtg closed all the 3rd party developers would suffer. I have said this before and will say it again it seems to be the same people time and time again having a attempted dtg bash and it is getting really boring now I think it's about time the moderators done something about it and had a quiet word with these people as like I said it is pathetic and boring we are all here for the same reason we like trains and train simming why can we all not get on