AP/DT MKI coaches

[gptech]

Has any body else having the issue where the passengers in these coaches don't appear in 'drive' mode even though they're there in the scenario editor?
Coupling a loco in the editor makes them visible, but when playing a scenario involving driving to and coupling to them still has them empty.

I've noticed this on Mark Raines RFD Mini Tour scenario for WCMLoS

RFD Mini Tour on WCML (Shap) [74416 bytes] - RFD Mini Tour.rwp File ID: 34780 Date: 28 Sep 2015 - 187 Downloads

and it's not due to Matthews excellent Intercity reskins (6th one down at http://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/mwreskins.html) as I get the same *problem* with any variant--swapping locos hasn't worked either.. The passengers show until the driven loco is 'entered', at which point they all seem to either shoot off to the bar (it is a railtour ) or hide from the guard in the loo. Default Kuju coaches work fine, which suggests it's definitely caused by the rolling stock.

As I've butchered these poor things a wee bit (understatement) trying to get the tail lights working (limited success) it's too early to raise a proper support ticket (more likely to be my fault) so if anybody could just have a quick look and double check for me I'd be grateful.

[31160]

Nope i also noticed when i was writing it there were nobody on board, i know 133 was well dudback in the day but still

[749006]

I ran a special and because I used "Express Freight" in the train type, to make it follow certain passenger trains, it did not show any peoples in the train.

Peter

[gptech]

That affects the priority of the service Peter, and doesn't suppress the visibility of passengers. Changing the train type in this particular scenario still gives empty coaches.

[749006]

Another curiosity - if I zoom out from a train the passengers disappear.
Zoom back in and they reappear - Something to do with Draw Distance?

Peter

Just done a QD with a Blue Class 40 which gives me the DT stock and the Peoples are sat there in the Buffet and other coaches.

Obviously you don't have something ticked to make the coaches empty?

[atlasduff47]

Happy to report populated DT Mk1's here, not on the scenario in question but on a QD on The Kyle Line.

[gptech]

That's not the problem Andy, with a loco coupled all is as it should be but when you start a scenario light engine and go to couple to the coaches the passengers scarper. Not a huge issue, it doesn't break the scenario in any way and as starting coupled isn't the usual mode it doesn't affect many scenarios. I was more concerned that I'd broke something than *picking fault*.
Haven't had the draw distance issue, but haven't looked so I'll check that after work and also run things in TS2015 to try and put a date on the issue starting.

[gptech]

Just the same in TS2015, and after testing and looking for it I too have disappearing passengers when zoomed out---at about 100 yards from the coaches they go all coy and hide. I'm not interested or bothered enough to drag TS2014 out of my archives and test in that, so decided to take the easy way out and edit the scenario to start with the loco coupled. It's a nice wee run by the way Mark; as always with your gifts to us, very enjoyable.

[Carinthia]

Just the same in TS2015, and after testing and looking for it I too have disappearing passengers when zoomed out---at about 100 yards from the coaches they go all coy and hide. I'm not interested or bothered enough to drag TS2014 out of my archives and test in that, so decided to take the easy way out and edit the scenario to start with the loco coupled. It's a nice wee run by the way Mark; as always with your gifts to us, very enjoyable.

There are a lot of strange issues with the Digital Traction stock and it should be borne in mind that they are a very old product so perhaps do not do things the way we would expect today. Remember that DT actually withdrew them from sale which suggests they were aware of various issues. They remained unavailable until Armstrong Powerhouse came to some kind of agreement to market them, but it is clear that the original problems still remain.

John

[gptech]

Yes John, and also the fact that there are 4 or 5 different versions of the coaches, all with differing feature sets --- the tail lights probably being the most noticeable. As I wrote earlier, this minor *issue* isn't a game-breaker; I'd played about with the scenario in question at least half a dozen times before I noticed the passengers were AWOL, which shows how noticeable it is/was.
I've only ended up with the scenario edited to start with the loco coupled as part of the quest to find out what does work, rather than out of necessity. As the vast majority of scenarios start with stock coupled this isn't likely to be a widespread problem, certainly not a cause for concern nor a reason not to use the coaches---I mean, who would forego Matthews lovely Intercity reskins?

[DaveDewhurst]

Isn't this a new feature half implemented by RSC conflicting with an earlier Kuju feature,
if a child object like Passengers is called "Passengers" it disappears when not a driven train (Kujus original feature) which was broken by RSC in TS2015 when they implemented the passenger loading/unloading feature which caused all non driven stock to show passengers (because they couldn't be given an instruction to start unloaded)
This sounds like the original feature has been re-implemented but in certain situations is still causing issues.

I've not tried the scenario in question or tested my theory but Id bet (not much) money on it being at least half right

Dave

[gptech]

Dave, I think you're (at least) half right in that the passengers *hiding* is related to the (now broken) feature that gave us lovely empty stock in sidings etc. I'm mostly guessing here, but from what we gleaned when messing about with the tail lights the passenger *feature* and dynamic tail lights seemed to have been implemented when the coaches were available through Steam and updated, but that update was not carried through to the DT acquired version--which is what AP seem to have the rights to distribute now. Oddly though, one of the AP *extra* liveries/variants does feature tail lights---or can be made to with a bit (definition of 'bit' still to be determined ) of work. Unfortunately due to the various versions folk will have there's no quick fix for any of this; though once again, the disappearing passengers in this case is a bit of a non-issue.

[atlasduff47]

That's not the problem Andy, with a loco coupled all is as it should be but when you start a scenario light engine and go to couple to the coaches the passengers scarper. Not a huge issue, it doesn't break the scenario in any way and as starting coupled isn't the usual mode it doesn't affect many scenarios. I was more concerned that I'd broke something than *picking fault*.
Haven't had the draw distance issue, but haven't looked so I'll check that after work and also run things in TS2015 to try and put a date on the issue starting.

Sorry about that Gary, I didn't read the original post thoroughly enough, the passengers do disappear as I zoom out as Peter noticed.

[gptech]

Sorry about that Gary, I didn't read the original post thoroughly enough

And what makes you think you're the only one with that talent???

There's certainly something going on with these coaches---I won't call it a flaw or problem as in all honesty we've only uncovered it by accident, so it hasn't exactly been a major problem. as John posted earlier, these are pretty old base models with a complicated lineage so some might have the same effect, others won't.
My original question has been answered though, so thanks very much chaps---at least I now know I haven't *broken* things!!