WHL South from DTG and Milepost Simulations

[pjt1974]

I think Helensburgh Upper is as good a place as any to start. It is located reasonably close to the traditional boundary between the Scottish Lowlands and Highlands. It is just as the line leaves the Clyde and the central belt and if we go ultimately historic, when the West Highland Line was first opened 120 years ago, it ran from Craigendoran Junction, just south east of Helensburgh Upper, and connected to Dumbarton and Glasgow via the aply named Glasgow, Dumbarton and Helensburgh Railway.

[gptech]

why not include the line into Glasgow Queen Street?

If you reverse the question to "Why include the line into Glasgow Queen Street?" and look (as many have pointed out) at the amount of work involved you can answer both questions very easily.

If you want to run a service into Glasgow then the simple answer is to create a chained pair of scenarios, the last leg into Glasgow on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route.
If you want to go to Oban then try

The Oban Line [30898377 bytes] - The Oban Line V1-1.rwp File ID: 26317 Date: 08 Jun 2011 - 3092 Downloads

and once again use a chained pair of scenarios.

[Bullmannumber4]

I suppose I'm just a little too hard to please then. But if you're going to charge £24.99 for a route it should be in my opinion have more than just a run through the wilderness. Would it have taken much extra work to at least add the Oban line? I'd also rather not have to do chain scenarios either and you wouldn't be able to do that in this case as the Edinburgh to Glasgow doesn't include any of the line across to Helensburgh.

[pjt1974]

I can understand some people's disappointment, even if I don't really agree. Especially those who've never dabbled in the editor to build a route.

If we look at some sort of timescale on route building just give some an idea of the scale. This isn't having a go at anyone, just an informed reply to try to highlight the work involved

In March 2014 I extended WCML over Shap west towards Barrow. By January 2015 I had reached 19 miles completed plus a few small areas completed further along. Admittedly, that is a one man build. I'd like to say I was doing it in my spare time around work, but unfortunately much of the time building I was unemployed so it was pretty much a full time build.

Say for a team of 5, that's nearly 100 miles for 12 months, about the length of this route. Add Oban, remembering they'd have to build it themselves and not just addon the free version, another month and a half, maybe two months. Add the link to Queens Street, a superficial look shows it to be around 25 miles, plus it goes through highly populated areas which, by their very nature, take longer, you could be looking at another 2 or 3 months build atleast.

Part of the art of route building, especially to make it commercial viable and profitable, is knowing when to stop.

[Bullmannumber4]

What I always look for in a route is replayabilty. I don't get much enjoyment out of just going from point a to point b and those routes that are like that I rarely go back to. The ones I return to time and time again are those like the Edinburgh Glasgow and WCML North routes where you have a real variety of runs you can do.

I understand that extra time would be needed to make these routes longer, but it would be worth the extra wait and considering we don't hear about a route until it's nearly done then there is no pressure for it to be completed earlier.

[metrobus]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the route made entirely by one person?
Edward

[pjt1974]

I think the pressure to finish is more than likely commercial.
To add Oban and/or Queen Street, the route builders would have to generate up to 50% more sales just to cover the cost of the extra build time. It is ofcourse a matter of opinion and pure speculation whether going to Glasgow would generate upto 50% more sales. It's probably a trade off between keeping people happy and not going out of business or making profit

[almark]

Speaking from a personal standpoint when I did the Kyle line,it took me 9 months from start to finish to do the 82/3 mile route,that's working 9-5 Monday-Friday plus extra hours here and there,I think it's at that point when you realise how much time must be spent building a route of this magnitude. If we are talking about 36 miles to Oban then I'd hazard a guess for one person that would take at LEAST 4-5 months to get up to a decent standard.

If Glasgow and all it's suburbs were done then if I were doing it I'd give at least 6 months,just to do it justice,it's hard to understand just how long it takes to do more urban areas until you try.

[Bullmannumber4]

I think the pressure to finish is more than likely commercial.
To add Oban and/or Queen Street, the route builders would have to generate up to 50% more sales just to cover the cost of the extra build time. It is ofcourse a matter of opinion and pure speculation whether going to Glasgow would generate up to 50% more sales. It's probably a trade off between keeping people happy and not going out of business or making profit

Correct me if I'm wrong, in your opinion they rushed it too release as it would have cost more money to build extra? The only extra cost would be more time and considering how long it takes to build a route, a few extra months wouldn't have made too much difference. Also wouldn't it be nice if some of these routes were extended after their release, very much like the WCML North was after release? Maybe I'm just being unreasonable, but it would at least justify the price tag considering the game itself costs less than this one route, which in itself is by far not the worse ever released.

[Rockdoc2174]

I'm very unlikely to buy the route as I don't like single-track lines but I have to echo what's being said by other route builders to the comments on the lack of additional track at various points. Granted I'm very inexperienced and am not working to a deadline but I can say from my work at Breadsall, Awsworth and Bennerley for The Friargate Line that doing an odd mile can take weeks on end unless you're prepared to chuck the scenery in any old how. Adding something like thirty miles of an urban landscape between Helensburgh and Glasgow with a lot of assets to be added would not be trivial. You can't just dab stuff down and leave it like that. You have to run endless numbers of test scenarios to see what the player will see and you spot a lot of errors that way, believe me.

And when you've got the basics right you start again with the detailing. I have two canals and a small river to populate with trees and sedges and that won't be a five-minute job, either. Then I can start on texturing the fields . . . .

Another small group we're in contact with are doing a section of the Midland lines in a similar area to us. It took them eight months to complete their work on Ilkeston Junction to Ilkeston Town, Cossall Colliery and up to the Bennerley viaduct. That's not much more than a square mile of urban sprawl and a bit of farmland on the eastern edge.

Keith

[rfletcher72]

But if you're going to charge £24.99 for a route it should be in my opinion have more than just a run through the wilderness.

It is the West Highland line - "and what was Madam expecting to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window?".

I am sorry to ask but what were you expecting from this route? - it crosses some of the most barren terrain in Scotland,

[metrobus]

Well assuming that Milepost started working on this route straight after they finished Canadian Mountain Pass which was released in February 2014 that means they've probably been working on it coming up to 18 months. I think after working on something for so long I don't honestly think you'd want to work on it any more especially a good extra 50 miles which would probably add another 6-8 months or more to development time.
Edward

[pjt1974]

Consider yourself corrected. I never meant that at all and how you came to that conclusion I'll never know. When did I ever say, or allude to, that this route was a rushed job?

I have a suspicion you are try to twist what I've said to gain a reaction and ultimately make me look the fool.

I have been merely defending the route maker or makers for their decision to start the route at Helensburgh and pointing out the time and effort to go any further, time and effort which commercially costs money.

As you don't seem to be willing to grasp this fact and put negative spin on what I've posted then there's no point in trying to explain further.

[Bullmannumber4]

Consider yourself corrected. I never meant that at all and how you came to that conclusion I'll never know. When did I ever say, or allude to, that this route was a rushed job?

I have a suspicion you are try to twist what I've said to gain a reaction and ultimately make me look the fool.

I have been merely defending the route maker or makers for their decision to start the route at Helensburgh and pointing out the time and effort to go any further, time and effort which commercially costs money.

As you don't seem to be willing to grasp this fact and put negative spin on what I've posted then there's no point in trying to explain further.

Sorry you feel that way as this certainly was not my aim. To me if a developer makes the decision to release something early because it makes more commercial sense, then it would say to me at least that they could have done more, once again especially for the price you have to pay for it.

Once again sorry if it came across as me trying to spin your words, as that wasn't what I intended at all.

[davep]

I'm actually happy with the route ending at Helensburgh. It's the poor-ish quality of the scenery that makes it a no-no for me.