DTG Class 105 Cravens

[tnleeuw01]

Alternatively... a MK1 coach has windows of the right size so one of those given some TLC might also do as a stand in.

I read that the 105 is built from Mk1 bodies so I would indeed expect an Mk1 coach to kind-of fit in.

--Tim

[gptech]

I think it was based on the side profile Tim rather than being built from them. Later MK1s were a bit longer than 105 cars but there would seem to have only been 6" or so between the lengths of the early MK1s and the 105 cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_105

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1

Interestingly, Cravens had a big influence on the final design of the MK1s, "In 1955, an order was placed for 14 vehicles, with manufacturers being invited to incorporate innovative features; perhaps the most striking of these prototypes, which were completed in 1957, were those constructed by Cravens."

[749006]

A slight problem with the idea of putting a centre trailer coach is the set being formed of a DMBS and a DTCL
Therefore you would have a three coach train with one power car.

[gptech]

A slight problem with the idea of putting a centre trailer coach is the set being formed of a DMBS and a DTCL
Therefore you would have a three coach train with one power car.

The DTCL would be set up as a powered 'engine'--it has to be defined as powered in order to have a cab, so in theory it shouldn't be too hard to give it some horsepower to turn it into a DMCL

[michaelhendle]

Hi
Just like to say to say thankyou to everyone who replied to my question about the 105 centre car and the class 24,as I said I haven't got a clue about reskins and model making,I'm just grateful that people like Richard.make such marvellous models
Mike

[gptech]

Mike, do you have any of the class 101 packs?

[michaelhendle]

Hi
Yes I the DTG class 101,which I downloaded from steam,and the 111 as well

Mike

[gptech]

To me, and I'll happily admit I'm not *fussy*, it doesn't look too bad after a little bit of work...



Sure, the windows need darkening a touch but bringing the grey of the roof down to be in line with the DMBS has improved things a lot.....a little bit of juggling with the stripes might make it half bearable. Worth carrying on with?

[chrisonline]

How does it look in a full three-car set seen in full? Don't the different lines of the window bottoms stand out?

[michaelhendle]

I suppose with the limitations within TS 2015,if you want a three car 105,you can only use the nearest available centre car,which in this case will be from a 101 set
Mike

[gptech]

I suppose with the limitations within TS 2015,if you want a three car 105,you can only use the nearest available centre car,which in this case will be from a 101 set
Mike

Yes Mike, it's essentially a work round/bodge job/compromise, finding something that doesn't look too much out of place.

[deltic1981]

The 105,101,107 were mixed together in RL

E50384 + E51301 + E56464 (02/12/82 & 08/01/83) All Cravens, all blue.
SC52028 + E50386 + E56441 (11/01/83) Class 107 DMSL
E51493 + SC59790 + SC52004 (08/01/83) Class 107 TSL & DMBS
E50376 + E56469 + SC52003 (18/01/83) Class 107 DMBS
E51301 + SC59069 + SC52028 (19/02/83) Class 101 TSL & Class 107 DMSL
E50384 + SC59791 + SC51251 (24/02/83) Class 107 TSL & Class 101 DMBS
E50376 + E56464 + SC51536 (04/03/83) Class 101 DMSL (DTCL still with 1st class)
E51301 + SC59069 + SC52033 (23/03/83) Class 101 TSL & Class 107 DMSL

http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/class+105

[gptech]

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_105 the 'as built' 3 car sets comprised of:

Driving Motor Brake Second (DMBS) 33 50752–50784
Trailer Composite with lavatory (TCL) 19 59307–59325
Driving Motor Composite with lavatory (DMCL) 33 50785–50817

which doesn't really add up---66 driving vehicles yet only 19 trailers.

Whilst it's true that in later years they were formed into 3 car sets this wasn't always by the addition of a trailer;

Driving trailer cars 56476/477/478/480 became centre-cars between Class 100 DMBS cars based at Haymarket....
...made up a 3-car set with a Class 101 DTCL in the middle.

Quite a mix!

Using a class 101 TCL wouldn't look out of place for depicting those later sets, but they wouldn't have been green by then so to get a reasonable looking 'original' 3 car set we have to compromise somewhere. If you have the no longer available class 107 this has a centre car with it which whilst not a perfect match comes close--not an ideal solution admittedly.

EDIT:

The information at http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/105/numbering.html

clarifies the original formations at least..

Original Set Formations

Power Trailers
Class 106 DMBS 50359-72 paired with DTCL 56114-27 for NER
Class 105 DMBS 50373-94 paired with DTCL 56128-49 for NER/LMR
Class 105 DMBS 51254-301 paired with DTCL 56412-59 for ER
Class 105 DMBS 51471-94 paired with DTCL 56460-83 for ER/ScR
Power Twins
Class 105 DMBS 50771-84 paired with DMCL 50804-17 for LMR
3-car Sets
Class 105 DMBS 50752-70 + TCL 59307-25 + DMCL 50785-803 for LMR

[theorganist]

In the years of Green liveried DMU's whilst not unknown Hybrid sets would have been more unusual, especially when lines started closing BR found itself with more DMU's than it needed.

The three car class 105 sets were Midland region based and would most likely not have been seen on the Teeside and Weardale route, the power trailer set provided is much more suitable for this area.

Hybrid sets were more common later in the life of the first generation sets often because of a sudden shortage of units, particularly when the second generation DMU's were first introduced and were proving unreliable. I do remember some makeshift class 116 DMBS/101 DMCL hybrids formed at Tyseley in 1990 which were supposed to match with Sprinter timings, the 101 vehicles were to provide the lavatory in place of a 116 DMS.

The Scottish region however seemed to be showing off some interesting Hybrid formation long before other regions!

[gptech]

The three car class 105 sets were Midland region based and would most likely not have been seen on the Teeside and Weardale route, the power trailer set provided is much more suitable for this area.

Certainly, but as Chris is after something to presumably remind him of when he was just a wee lad...

can someone tell me which units I would have known as a kid, going through Hinckley on the Leicester to Birmingham New St run

Just because it's been released to be applicable to Weardale it doesn't mean it's the only route you're allowed to run it on