Atomic Systems

Trev123 wrote:People moan about all the money they have invested in TS and won't go to the TS/Unreal when ever it comes out. I went through 5 versions of MS Flight Simulator and invested lots of money in each version and had to start again with the next version. If you are really a keen Train Driver when the Unreal version comes out you well be rushing to buy it. I know I well be. I have a cupboard full of old PC games starting from Windows 95 thousands of $ invested which are probably worthless now.

I disagree with three points in your post.

People are not 'moaning' about the money they have spent, on this forum they seem to be merely expressing their opinion. Admittedly, some people are not necessarily as happy as you seem to be to part with the same amount of money, or more again.

To be fair you didn't have to start again with the next version of flight simulator, that was your choice, and people will face their own choice when the new UE4 sim is released whether to upgrade or otherwise.

Lastly adoption of the new sim will not be down to how keen a train driver you are (remember it is a sim as you have previously told us), but as always, the choice for many will be a financial one, hence the comments regarding money already spent.

I disagree with the disagreement

atlasduff47 wrote:Admittedly, some people are not necessarily as happy as you seem to be to part with the same amount of money, or more again.

Parting with whatever amount of money it takes isn't mandatory, nobody is being forced to move to the new version when (if?...so far we don't even have a definate "yes, it's all worked well in development and will be released.....") it arrives, and even then nobody will be forced to repurchase everything they bought for TS.

We've had 7 years (?) of this particular base game, with FREE yearly updates: that's quite an achievement, but there has to be movement to keep up with our ever increasing demands for more realism/quality.

Pretty sure I'll be tempted, even though I have spent a large wad on RS/TS. Depends on the improvements UE4 offers over the "old" tech imo, but even so, I have no gripe about purchasing new stuff, just the way it is in the world of commerce.

atlasduff47 wrote:

Trev123 wrote:People moan about all the money they have invested in TS and won't go to the TS/Unreal when ever it comes out. I went through 5 versions of MS Flight Simulator and invested lots of money in each version and had to start again with the next version. If you are really a keen Train Driver when the Unreal version comes out you well be rushing to buy it. I know I well be. I have a cupboard full of old PC games starting from Windows 95 thousands of $ invested which are probably worthless now.

To be fair you didn't have to start again with the next version of flight simulator, that was your choice, and people will face their own choice when the new UE4 sim is released whether to upgrade or otherwise.

gptech wrote:I disagree with the disagreement

atlasduff47 wrote:Admittedly, some people are not necessarily as happy as you seem to be to part with the same amount of money, or more again.

Parting with whatever amount of money it takes isn't mandatory, nobody is being forced to move to the new version when (if?...so far we don't even have a definate "yes, it's all worked well in development and will be released.....") it arrives, and even then nobody will be forced to repurchase everything they bought for TS.

We've had 7 years (?) of this particular base game, with FREE yearly updates: that's quite an achievement, but there has to be movement to keep up with our ever increasing demands for more realism/quality.

Even though this could get silly, I disagree with your disagreement with regard to my original disgreement

Gary, you seem to have missed the point I made in my post above, which essentially agrees with the point you make, which is that it will be up to each individual to choose whether to upgrade or not, not mandatory.

In addition, I don't recall suggesting that the new UE4 version is a negative thing, all I have said, is that I for one will probably have an issue justifying the cost, at least initially to upgrade.

No doubt I'll end up on unreal engine eventually. It will all depend on my PC and what it will run.

As for TS2016, as always, I'll welcome the upgrade whatever that brings but I won't be buying TS2016 to get the extras that don't come with the free upgrade. I'll just do as I've done every year and buy the game again in a decent sale to add the extra routes/loco's to my installation.

atlasduff47 wrote:Even though this could get silly

Silly I can deal with, it's the complicated bit that'll give me a headache----keeping up with which disagreement we're disagreeing with!

Let's agree to agree on the key point,

atlasduff47 wrote: it will be up to each individual to choose whether to upgrade or not, not mandatory.

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that 90% of UKTS members who play TS will buy/upgrade to an Unreal powered version, if only to see what's what.

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that 90% of UKTS members who play TS will buy/upgrade to an Unreal powered version, if only to see what's what.

I haven't the slightest doubt of it - PC specs permitting.

The question in my mind is how quickly TS users will make TS:UE their railsim platform of choice. This will be influenced by the cost and availability of content for TS:UE which will be largely determined by DTG.

It would be good to see them discount UE assets derived from TS artwork, and releasing versions of new assets for both sims during the transitional period.

Hi all,

To use an analogy, first-generation DMU’s didn’t suddenly become obsolete or stop working when Sprinters came along. Sure, you couldn’t couple the two together, but the originals remained credible and versatile technology for a heck of a long time thereafter, serving faithfully alongside the new order before moving on into preservation.

Looking forward many years hence then, I foresee a ‘virtual preservation movement’, a happy band of individuals dedicated to maintaining and keeping the original franchise software running long after the new simulator has become widespread. Their routes may no longer connect to the current network and their stock may not be ‘certified’ to run there, but by Jove they’ll still be having fun!

Cheers

Norm

oldstraydog wrote: Looking forward many years hence then, I foresee a ‘virtual preservation movement’, a happy band of individuals dedicated to maintaining and keeping the original franchise software running long after the new simulator has become widespread. Their routes may no longer connect to the current network and their stock may not be ‘certified’ to run there, but by Jove they’ll still be having fun!

Cheers

Norm

A brother of mine who is into Football Manager tells me that there is still a considerable number of people playing a version from the 2003/2004 era. I suppose MSTS falls into the same category of having a loyal band of followers long after the game has been abandoned by its makers. I can see myself enjoying TS20XX for many years to come alongside the new version.

Donal.

As Gary has said above, I will get the new TS:UE, just to see what it's all about.
I more-than-likely will not ditch TS2015 - or '16 or whatever it is by then, as I have spent
a lot of money, like many others, on the current TS. And I am quite happy with it.
If I like the new UE version, then as funds permit, I may well acquire some DLC for that,
but we'll have to wait and see.

It occurs to me that future (in)compatibility issues may not be as problematic as one might fear, for this reason:

1) If I've understood things right (and I've been away from TS for a while), DTG have acquired the back-catalogue of the content-creator that we are not allowed to mention.
2) That being so, and given that not much of it has been released on Steam so far, I can't see DTG wanting to waste all that potential future revenue by setting up the new sim in ways that render those so-far unreleased models wasted investment that can't be marketed.

So, to my non-techie mind it seems likely that the3D modelling part of it will likely be portable over in some way; it might not be GeoPcDx but it will be something of the sort, and likewise with .bin files? Over the years there's been plenty of folks here who've taken a peek under the hood and worked out how everything functions...

Cheers

Norm

gptech wrote: Silly I can deal with

That's probably just as well!

gptech wrote: Let's agree to agree on the key point

I agree to agree!

gptech wrote: I'll stick my neck out and suggest that 90% of UKTS members who play TS will buy/upgrade to an Unreal powered version, if only to see what's what.

You may well be right Gary, and if I can afford it at the time, I will no doubt be very tempted, dependant of course on the level of improvement switching may make.

oldstraydog wrote:Hi all,

Looking forward many years hence then, I foresee a ‘virtual preservation movement’, a happy band of individuals dedicated to maintaining and keeping the original franchise software running long after the new simulator has become widespread. Their routes may no longer connect to the current network and their stock may not be ‘certified’ to run there, but by Jove they’ll still be having fun!

Cheers

Norm

Well I have to say belonging to a virtual preservation movement sounds great, it does probably mean that I will have to spend a lot more time, fathoming out how the game actually works first!

oldstraydog wrote:Hi all,


Looking forward many years hence then, I foresee a ‘virtual preservation movement’, a happy band of individuals dedicated to maintaining and keeping the original franchise software running long after the new simulator has become widespread. Their routes may no longer connect to the current network and their stock may not be ‘certified’ to run there, but by Jove they’ll still be having fun!

Cheers

Norm

Excellent

I remember saying something similar when Railworks became TS2012, or whatever it was, when questioning where the sim was going and how many people would it alienate. So it'll be TS2016, just like MSTS, nobody loves us but we'll carry on regardless

There's nothing to to worry about unless the UE4 version is a forced upgrade that over-writes the existing version (whatever it is at the time), and doing that for something that's not backward compatible would both be crazy and pointless. I'd expect new DLC to be released for the UE4 version but you'll still have the old one for running what you've already got, so what's the problem? If versions of existing DLC are released for the new TS, making use of all it can support and not being stuck with the various issues of the existing one then great, I may buy them, if they're identical then there's no need to.

I really don't see the downside.