FREE Membership

[kencharleslong]

Hi

I have been asked about my models etc. and their use and replied as below. Can I just add at this point a note to the administrators of the site. I have paid my membership for many years but would like to suggest that artists such as myself should commit a certain amount of work to the site each year and enjoy free membership for that. After all it is the contributors that create this particular site. I have many models and some scenarios to upload but am loath to work long hours only then to have to pay to give my work away. No offence.

My letter regarding my work and its uses.

I put these products in the Public Domain so please feel free to use as required. That includes hosting, distributing etc. I am quite happy for you to sell them as part of your product if you want but good luck on that one. I stopped making models for the Train Sim community because I tried to sell one product as an example but made not one sale despite my other models and scenarios having had many thousands of downloads. On top of that despite the fact that sites like UKTrainsim make their living through artists uploading their work I still have to pay to be a member. So I have now returned to modelling for the action gaming community as they are willing to pay modest sums for my work. Many of these models would also serve the Train Sim community.

[yyyyamst]

Sorry to hear this but I think you ve made a good choice. The trouble is most people want something for nothing or next to nothing. You only have to read through the various threads which are usually highly critical and whinge on about having to pay too much! Good on ya mate good choice

[gswindale]

Just to add; you don't need to pay to be a member of UKTS. In addition; I wouldn't be so sure that Atomic make a living out of this site - the fees you pay for premium help pay for the massive amount of storage needed to run the site.

I know some webhosts claim "unlimited" storage; but that is extremely expensive to come by once you move off shared hosting.

With regards to selling your models; how were you doing this - there are a number of providers who sell reasonably well due to their heritage and perceived quality. Could you have tried partnering one of them? Only asking as new payware entrants will struggle now to crack into the market in my view.

[AndyUK]

Just to add; you don't need to pay to be a member of UKTS.....

I thought free members couldn't upload to the file library though which I saw as being the OP's main point, i.e. to upload his freeware he has to be a premium member of the site.

Andy L

[gswindale]

According to the FAQ on the main site; anybody can upload content to the site.

[briyeo1950]

It's only in downloading where subscribed members can gain faster downloads, apart from that it is the same for all members as far as I'm aware.
So a "free" member can upload his assets at no cost.

[AndyUK]

According to the FAQ on the main site; anybody can upload content to the site.

I stand corrected then . I thought I'd tried in the past and not been able to, so either something has changed or my memory's not what it used to be!

Andy L

[PeterPeddlesden]

Just to add; you don't need to pay to be a member of UKTS.....

I thought free members couldn't upload to the file library though which I saw as being the OP's main point, i.e. to upload his freeware he has to be a premium member of the site.

Andy L

Another misnomer Andy - ANYBODY once registered can Upload to the library whether they are Premium or NON Premium.

Ken is not unique in being an "artist", there are likely others. However, the culture within the Train Simulator Community was in the beginning a case of modellers producing something that they saw as missing from the available items and wanted the item for themselves. They built the model, used it and as a bonus to the community they SHARED it by uploading it to the sites that were available, including UKTrainSim. For that, the Community has always been grateful.
That culture does still exist today but in a much lesser form. A lot of todays modellers are macro payware modellers and the number of sites that have popped up over the last 5 years bear testimony to that change of culture.
UKTrainSim acts as host to a number of CD products that are donationware, Class 15 Preservation Society, Talyllyn Railway, Team ALCO to mention just three.

We also host the UKTS Freeware Packs, models donated to the community and collected together in packs by Jim Nobbs. For which the community is grateful, both to the modellers and to Jim for making life easier to download and use the items.

The discussion on paying (Additional Premium Membership) for uploaded models has been done to death on numerous occasions with the greatest stumbling block as to who decides the value of a product and are there other inputs to the equation. Should there be a rating system ? Does the number of downloads have any true validity to the number of users actually using the item ? Too many uncertainties and variables involved.

[kencharleslong]

OK fair enough. Just a couple of points. I am not a newbie as I have been involved in computers since I qualified in 1980 having built two computers the year before, a UK101 8k of memory and the famous ZX80. I have spent all my life in computers and the last twenty as a lead programmer producing CDs for Edutech Systems that have been used in education in over forty countries. I have been happy to give away my models but do not wish to pay for the privilege.

So Peter says non members can upload so maybe I will try that as a non member. As I said in my first post I have been a member of the site for many years and rarely download but have uploaded quite a few items.

Last thing Peter all sites dealing with 3D modellers refer to them as artists so no need for the word emphasising speech marks mate. No offence.

[maxtedrw]

I am not sure that this would really be workable. Where would one set the bar to free membership - a reskin, a route, more than 3 models. Very difficult and a potential source of arguments.

I rather prefer that freeware stays freely-given-with-no-strings-ware on the basis that there is nothing in it for me other than satisfaction, glory and everlasting fame

[gptech]

So Peter says non members can upload

No he didn't...

He said:

ANYBODY once registered can Upload to the library whether they are Premium or NON Premium.

You don't need to take out a Premium (paid for) membership to upload, just be a registered member. A Premium subscription is not related to the uploading of material, but allows such members instant access to download those uploaded items (no queueing) and to simultaneous downloads--sorry to be blunt but it's your own fault for paying for something you didn't need or want.

[kencharleslong]

OK gptech. A little pedantic on your part as it was perfectly clear what I was saying. Still if it's what rings your bell.

And by the way I did not pay for what I did not need or want which if you had read my posts you would have understood. I have paid for many years as a member of this site and thought I was putting a reasonable argument for some new ideas. Sorry to be so blunt as you put it but please read what I say not what you want to think I said. No offence but as someone who feels he has given quite a lot to the community I am not best pleased with your kind of unnecessary post.

[Easilyconfused]

OK can we just cool things a little please guys and take the time to read the posts fully?

The site owner and admin have explained the business model numerous times over the years. Nobody is going to retire to somewhere hot on the back of the site income. The bandwidth has to be paid for and the throughput figures I have seen are impressive.

There are a number of members who have put their hands in their pockets over the years to support the UKTS exhibitions attendances as well and I know my expenditure over the last 5 or 6 years has been significant. Each weekend we are away now costs me the best part of £300 but we do it to support the site. I don't have an artistic bone in my body so I help out in other ways. I have immense admiration for those who actually produce stuff since that is beyond my capabilities. I could no doubt learn a little and contribute some content but time is my enemy there.

As Pete mentioned earlier - this has been done to death and any ranking or rating system would be a minefield. It would be open to manipulation by people signing up for duplicate accounts and other such shenanigans.

[gptech]

A little pedantic on your part as it was perfectly clear what I was saying

It could be seen as perfectly clear that you misquoted Peter, that's how many of the misnomers he spoke of happen.

Yes, I'm pedantic (and I'll admit, annoying) but as someone who's been around computers and education for many years I'm sure you appreciate the need for accuracy.

I am not best pleased with your kind of unnecessary post.

No offence meant by it, but as far as I'm concerned a post that attempts to clarify is not unnecessary; the FAQ relating to Premium membership and uploading/downloading (http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?fo ... filelibfaq) is pretty clear but there's at least one UKTS member who didn't fully understand the situation.
Your complaint (for want of a better word) is that you've had to pay to be able to upload your models---a fair complaint if that was the situation, but you've taken Premium membership either because you've wanted to support the site in some way, because you didn't want to queue for downloads regardless of how infrequently that may be, or that you made a mistake/misread the terms and thought it was necessary. Propagating the mistake, if that's what it was, would be the unnecessary posting. (Once again, no offence meant)

Now, moving on...
The idea of *rewarding* artists/contributors--call them what you will-- does have a certain merit but as Peter outlined how would you implement it?
Premium membership after 10 uploads? after 100--whichever, neither takes in to account the standard of the work.
After 1,000 downloads? 500?
How would you deal with items made in collaboration with others, or even an upload on behalf of someone else?
How, and who, would 'police' the system?...remember that the upload moderation team are volunteers; what reward would you give them? Would you consider they even deserved one?
Probably far too much bother for a site that's not primarily a business.

The present system works well, and presumably has worked well for many years--people upload what they'd like to share and other people appreciate it.

[kencharleslong]

My last words on the matter. If some had read my posts they would have seen that I also have been in computing and producing educational material since 1980. Being pedantic is fine as long as it involves a desire to help matters along, not attack.

Anyway as someone who has both paid in the past to keep the site going and contributed, I would argue, more than my fair share to the site I think a little more discussion, that's all I was asking for, and les attack may have been better.

The last part of the previous post is full of reasons not to look at the matter mainly based on perceived technical problems. As someone involved in computer data transfer since the days of my first BBS I can state now they are all easily solvable. As for the storage space a site such as Cloudnext will give up to 10 separate domains on their reseller programme each of which is capable of 10/15 g byte of space for £149 per year. As it matters not where the files are placed as php can load them for transfer from any legitimate address we are looking at around 150 g bytes of space for less than £150.

Anyway I just asked a question but probably would not have had I foreseen the reaction from some members. That's it. Bye.

Ken