Thompson interactive. WHR coming soon

[lenfish]

That implies that any long established purveyor of sound packs and/or scenarios would have little bother securing the right to produce additions/enhancements for the route.

And then you enter the minefield of restrictive practices by limiting competition.

Regards,

Len

[passedcleaner]

Surely Thomson would have no business-led reason to restrict third party additions to their routes, provided the appropriate permissions were requested and agreed. By adding to existing products (eg a soundpack) the overall value of the original route purchased goes up, and this will only increase sales of said route in the long term? A company like AP does not abstract profit from a commercial route developer any more than Pumpkin cafés on railway stations take revenue from the TOCs who operate the train services.

[gptech]

That implies that any long established....etc.

Actually he didn't, he himself quoted an earlier post--just to keep the record straight, and if anybody wanted to take issue with the originator they won't go gunning for the wrong guy.

And then you enter the minefield of restrictive practices by limiting competition.

No limit entailed, anybody is free to approach Thomson and request permission/a licence to produce something to add to, or which uses their work.

[lenfish]

No limit entailed, anybody is free to approach Thomson and request permission/a licence to produce something to add to, or which uses their work.

Agreed but, if someone approached them and were refused only on the grounds they were a new company/developer then that would limit competition. On that basis, no new company would ever get off the ground. Sometimes easy to forget this is only a game and as long as it continues to develop and gives us pleasure to play perhaps we shouldn't be too concerned with all the ins and outs.The fact we are passionate about it is a good thing!

Regards,

Len

[gptech]

if someone approached them and were refused only on the grounds they were a new company/developer then that would limit competition

Yes, and if we go round and round in ever decreasing circles we'd end up with me approaching them for permission to make a soundpack and being refused on the grounds that I ain't got a clue how to do it--not only stifling competition but preventing me from learning!!
Of course lets not forget that the edict from Thomson was originally a wee bit ambiguous, the explanation offered more questions, and I doubt either were really intended to be used in a commercial setting.
If Thomson are approached by anybody the ins and outs of the discussions and results wouldn't be known to us, as is only right and proper, so we're getting nowhere by discussing it. Other than it being a fairly interesting side topic that is.

Back to the route anyway...haven't got it yet, but the screenshots look superb and the reaction of folk here shows it deserves a place on anybody's 'must have' list.

[longbow]

Yes, and if we go round and round in ever decreasing circles we'd end up with me approaching them for permission to make a soundpack and being refused on the grounds that I ain't got a clue how to do it--not only stifling competition but preventing me from learning!!

It's pretty clear that their motive here is to get a cut from payware add-ons rather than to control their quality.

[JustRight]

Back to the route anyway...haven't got it yet, but the screenshots look superb and the reaction of folk here shows it deserves a place on anybody's 'must have' list.

Indeed it is Garry. Apart from the realism and accuracy we have come to expect from Keith Ross, I am particularly impressed with the implementation of the SilverLining Weather system. The route includes a large selection of differing weather patterns, some of which even produce changeable weather, either worsening or improving. The Weather Blueprints are excellent and really show what can be done with the SilverLining system. Far, far better than the poor attempts provided by DTG as default items.

Cheers.

[deltic009]

Yes, and if we go round and round in ever decreasing circles we'd end up with me approaching them for permission to make a soundpack and being refused on the grounds that I ain't got a clue how to do it--not only stifling competition but preventing me from learning!!

It's pretty clear that their motive here is to get a cut from payware add-ons rather than to control their quality.

You have absolutely no way of knowing this so do you? It isn't pretty clear, it is a conclusion you've come to all of your own.

[longbow]

You have absolutely no way of knowing this so do you? It isn't pretty clear, it is a conclusion you've come to all of your own.

Indeed. But it's a reasonable deduction based on what they have said.

[smarty2]

Just had a drive with the first scenario. Och, what a wee fine route! http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =323840616
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =323840739
A challenging drive too, my points score got tatered with all those gradients trying to read the info and then going over the thirty limit! great fun though, i would recommend this route very highly, its beautifully put together with some fantastic touches. As others have wished for the extension of RETB to DMU's!

[tnleeuw01]

You have absolutely no way of knowing this so do you? It isn't pretty clear, it is a conclusion you've come to all of your own.

Indeed. But it's a reasonable deduction based on what they have said.

I don't see how Thomson would be getting any cut from what you might make on such a soundpack or other extension pack. DTG may get a cut, but it's not DTG imposing these limitations.

Now, Both Keith Ross & Alan Thomson are both of the opinion that the best way to support future development of the simulator, is by publishing your own commercial add-ons via DTG on Steam, and not using another platform like JustTrains, Halycon, or anything else.

That is their good right to believe so, and from that believe they publish their add-ons via DTG even though it earns them less money per sale. From that believe also they are trying to stimulate other developers into the same direction and this might be one of the means for them to do so -- although I don't think it is.
I really think that they try to stimulate development of higher standards or products, and wish to prevent what they feel are cheap rip-off products that cost you & me money without giving us much value. Causing disillusion in customers, but also leaving less money for customers to spend on quality DLC that has much more effort poured into it for the dollar/pound/euro asked for it.


However, there's nothing that prevents you from learning how to do a good job on making sound packs, scenario packs, or otherwise. You can still learn on other routes, and you can learn on their WHLE route - and once you have something which you believe is really really good, you can aproach them and show them what you've got.

I really feel that the resentment shown here by some people is out of place, at least in this case.

There are two outstanding developers, who have continously received praise from the community for the quality of their add-ons, who see that others come along and take their work, add something (relatively) cheap and easy that many offer for free on Steam Workshop, and try to earn some money on that for prices per hour of work put into it far exceeding what they themselves put into it. They see this polluting the overal market for DLC and wish to do something against it.
They also wish to support DTG in improving the overal product.

They do not however close the door completely - ask them and convince them that you have something really good, and they might give you an OK.
They also do not stop anyone from learning the trade and becoming masters at it.

You can still make a sound-pack for WHLE and distribute it for free. And eventually you might make soundpacks so good that they'll be of commercial quality, and can sell them as extra add-ons for various add-ons, or become part of the production of a really great piece of kit.

I think that some of the best creators of commercial add-ons started by making free add-ons, until they felt that their skills had become so good that they realized, hey, I could make some money on this perhaps. Not the other way round, that they think - hey, I could make some money if I try selling X, Y or Z so let me learn how to make X, or Y or Z and put up my first efforts for sale.
It's the latter that Keith & Alan have an issue with, not the former.

I hope not to inflame anyone but rather to put the discussion into a bit more perspective.

Kind regards,

--Tim van der Leeuw

[gptech]

Kind regards,--Tim van der Leeuw

Very good points there Tim, nicely put too.

[smarty2]

Wonder if the RETB can be retro fitted to the 156? Would that only be a job that oovee can do? Noticed the box is in cab at the moment but I guess it would be the mass of scripting and placing the other box in over the existing one?

[749006]

Wonder if the RETB can be retro fitted to the 156? Would that only be a job that oovee can do? Noticed the box is in cab at the moment but I guess it would be the mass of scripting and placing the other box in over the existing one?

There is nothing to stop you running the 156 over the route as the signalling allows it.
Flashing Blue Light is a Clear signal and the 156 would be perfect as AI.

[msmith4000]

It is all very well DTG imposing restrictions on commercial enhancements for their work

Please note that this restriction, on this route, is imposed by the route developer, Thomson Interactive.

Not by DTG.

Cheers,

--Tim

Thanks for pointing this out, i was aware of this though. As DTG are the publishers and distributers my money is paid to them so the way I see it DTG have sold me the software, not Thomson Int, so contract of sale with them? Much like say Destiny. Developed by Bungie but published by Activision, i have no dealings with the developer only the publisher. So DTG are still at least 50% to blame and have agreed to the eula conditions.
I do acknowledge though that DTG are or have in the past been very tolerant of enhancement packs for their own in house DLC. It will be interesting to see if the next new inhouse Dtg release has the same eula . . .

With regards to the route though it is the standards I expect from those who developed it and would buy it regardles of what is in the eula.