Thompson interactive. WHR coming soon

[anthonye]

Don't normally bother with free roam myself, but now I'm curious as to how the brake changeover switch in the cab would change the train priority in the Free roam. I though it more likely due to scripts not working correctly in these circumstances, something that is known to be an issue sometimes with heavily scripted models. Given that the route has plenty of speed signs it's not an issue for me, but I know some who find it an issue.

Probably nothing to do with what your talking about, I use freeroam all the time, not scenarios, just driving around

You mention about some locos are heavily scripted, I have found many routes that when run in freeroam you can only change points when stationary, not moving. The meshtools loco happens this way, and when you start to move to points fly back to the other direction again. I have had to change some points to "manual" operation to operate correctly in some routes, just changed West Highland so I can use the better scripted steam locos in freeroam.
Not all locos do this, Victory Works locos do not have the problem, probably because of the quality they are programmed and some others don't.

Anthony

[sean53]

I was thinking of buying the WHR extension and have asked someone who bought it what it was like for scenarios. According to him it says in the EULA that you are not allowed to write any unless uploaded to the workshop. Can someone else say if this is right

[ashgray]

I was thinking of buying the WHR extension and have asked someone who bought it what it was like for scenarios. According to him it says in the EULA that you are not allowed to write any unless uploaded to the workshop. Can someone else say if this is right

Not correct - the EULA certainly does not state that writing scenarios is prohibited unless uploaded to the Workshop. However, the question of how one may distribute any that are written is less clear. The EULA does not explicitly say that freeware scenarios cannot be created and uploaded here - it simply "encourages" users to use the Workshop.

From the EULA:

We encourage the non-commercial creation of scenarios for our routes as long as they are
distributed through the Steam Workshop.

Ash

[tnleeuw01]

I was thinking of buying the WHR extension and have asked someone who bought it what it was like for scenarios. According to him it says in the EULA that you are not allowed to write any unless uploaded to the workshop. Can someone else say if this is right

If you write them and never upload them anywhere that's one thing, the EULA can't cover that I would suppose.

But if you write a scenario using, for instance, the JT Clan? Would you not be allowed to upload that??

I've checked the EULA in the manual (PDF) online:

11.1 End User License Agreement (EULA)
This product is published by Railsimulator.com Ltd and distributed by Valve through their “Steam” online stores and distribution system. By purchasing and using this product you are bound by Valve’s Software License. In addition to these terms, Thomson Interactive Ltd prohibits any commercial use
or involvement of their products in third party commercial products unless prior written consent is sought and granted.

11.2 Commercial Add-ons and Scenario Packs
Thomson Interactive Ltd. Do not allow the development or sale of any commercial add-ons or associated products including but not limited to:
- Scenario Packs
- Route Enhancement Patches
- Audio Enhancement Packs
If you are interested in working with us please contact us through our web site.

11.3 Workshop Scenarios
We encourage the non-commercial creation of scenarios for our routes as long as they are distributed through the Steam Workshop.

So regarding the creation of non-commercial scenarios, it does say that they should be distributed via the workshop.

But a loco like the JT Clan is not available via Steam, so if you want to use that loco in a scenario, you cannot distribute the scenario via UKTS or a similar site?

Perhaps we should ask for a clarification here... ?

Cheers,

--Tim

[ashgray]

So regarding the creation of non-commercial scenarios, it does say that they should be distributed via the workshop.

Tim

The EULA doesn't state that scenarios should be distributed via the Workshop - it simply encourages people to do that. which is not quite the same.

Ash

[sean53]

Ah didn't know the manual was online. Have to question the bit about " as long as they are distributed through the workshop". Surely that means ONLY through the workshop. Puts 3rd party stock out of the question then

[tnleeuw01]

So regarding the creation of non-commercial scenarios, it does say that they should be distributed via the workshop.

Tim

The EULA doesn't state that scenarios should be distributed via the Workshop - it simply encourages people to do that. which is not quite the same.

Ash

Hmmmm - I don't wish to argue, start a flamewar, or anything, and English is not my native language, but the wording they chose is:

as long as they are distributed through the workshop

To me, that does read as "Workshop only" and appearently, I'm not the only one who reads it that way.

Keith Ross on his FB page suggests people contact Thomson Interactive with any questions regarding the EULA so I've sent them a request to clarify this and if I get any answer that I'm allowed to share on the forum, I'll post that here.

Kind regards,

--Tim van der Leeuw

[ashgray]

Tim

I don't think one can separate the first part of the relevant clause (the "encouraged" part) from the second part that you have quoted, but that's just my view. Absolutely no argument or flame war intended - I simply read the EULA literally, as it is written.

Ash

[phat2003uk]

I agree with Ash. Just because non-Workshop freeware scenarios aren't encouraged, doesn't mean they aren't permitted.

[AndyUK]

Tim,

I am a native English speaker and my interpretation of that part of the EULA is the same as yours, i.e. non-commercial creation of scenarios is encouraged, but 'as long as' means they have to be distributed via the Workshop.

If distribution by other methods is allowed, but distribution via the Workshop is the preferred channel, then I'd not have included 'as long as' but put it something like 'We encourage the non-commercial creation of scenarios for our routes and their distribution through the Steam Workshop.'

I'll be interested to see what reply you get from Thomson.

Andy L

[sean53]

If they are allowed it should plainly say so not left to ambiguity, Don't like this sort of attitude seeping into the sim

[tnleeuw01]

Tim

I don't think one can separate the first part of the relevant clause (the "encouraged" part) from the second part that you have quoted, but that's just my view. Absolutely no argument or flame war intended - I simply read the EULA literally, as it is written.

Ash

I agree with Ash. Just because non-Workshop freeware scenarios aren't encouraged, doesn't mean they aren't permitted.

Well I'm glad that both of you have turned out to be correct in your interpretation of the EULA.

The reply which I received from Thomson Interactive confirms that distribution via the Workshop is preferred, but that the terms do not intend to limit distribution to workshop only.

Their full response is:

Hi Tim,

Firstly, thank you very much for purchasing our West Highland Line Extension DLC, I’m glad you are enjoying it.

Regarding the EULA and our terms of use, the most critical part of our terms is that ANY commercial use of any kind including commercial scenario packs is absolutely prohibited. However non-commercial scenarios are fine, we do prefer that these are distributed via the Steam Workshop but other forms of distribution are ok such as UKTrainsim. Our terms are not there to restrict the enjoyment of the product or simulator- far from it, it should be fun! The reason for these new terms is the large number of new organisations and groups that keep appearing trying to make a “fast buck” off the back of other’s hard efforts (including our own). These groups do not contribute to Dovetail’s ongoing development as we do, well over 50% of our revenue goes back to Dovetail to support their hard efforts developing the core game and future technology. These new terms will apply to all forthcoming products that we are working on.

I’m happy for you to pass on this clarification.

Once again thanks for your purchase and happy driving in the West Highlands.

Very best regards

Alan

Alan Thomson
Director
Thomson Interactive Ltd.

I hope that this will clear up doubts which anyone might have!

Kind regards,

--Tim

[longbow]

If they had intended this to be a ban they would have said so. I'm guessing DTG encourage their partners to recommend the Workshop.

Attempts to restrict use of content in this way would be a very bad thing for the hobby and should be resisted by the community here.

[sean53]

Sorry to be a pain but OK free scenarios are fine, so I presume the use of 3rd party payware in them is OK to. Am I right

[tnleeuw01]

Sorry to be a pain but OK free scenarios are fine, so I presume the use of 3rd party payware in them is OK to. Am I right

I specifically asked about the use of commercial or non-commercial rolling stock from other sources than Steam, the reply from TI did not make any distinction the two so indeed I presume that the use of 3d party payware in scenarios is OK.

Kind regards,

--Tim