Atomic Systems

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:24 pm**

Having bought the Class 117 in the Sale this is one unit which will be consigned to AI use

The amount of errors on this set is stupid.
Train Pipe shows 30" instead of 21"
Gear Selector had Neutral for Fwd and Fwd for Neutral
Brake won't lap
And if you click on the rev counter switch - the engines shut down.
The set should do 70mph on the level but won't go faster than 65mph

Now if they had never had a first gen DMU from DTG I could possible understand some of the errors but when the 101 is set up correctly how did this bag of spanners get thru checking?

Peter

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:07 pm**

Most of DTG dlc is full of errors, I take you are referring to the second version of the class 101 that is set correctly as I have the first version which when it was released was dreadful, rear unit engine screamed and the whole set went off like a scolded cat until the community modified it. At least the class 117 goes like a wet paper bag, which was normal for 1st generation units as they lacked acceleration that the modern units have.

DTG is a mass produced conveyor belt of traction bang it out quick and move on to the next item like a production line at ford, if you want quality it takes a lot longer to make which is why 3rd party addons take around a year to produce and have quality like a Roles-Royce

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:48 pm**

749006 wrote:Gear Selector had Neutral for Fwd and Fwd for Neutral

I've no idea about the real thing, but the modelled version has a gear selector that shows neutral (0) and engaged gears of 1 through to 4.
Easily confused by the proximity to the reverser which has forward and reverse.
As it won't move in either forward or reverse with the gear selector in neutral (see arrow on the gear selector) it would appear to be at least a *working* representation.

749006 wrote:And if you click on the rev counter switch - the engines shut down.

Do you mean the wee switch just to the right of the rev counter?...the one that has a tool tip saying "Engine Start Stop".....

I'm all for realism, but the game's core software does impose certain limitations. On the bright side though, at least you got it cheap....6 quid is about the same price as a single spanner at B&Q

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:11 pm**

The brass handle is the Reverser. In the picture it's in the Remove position as the driver took it with him when he changed cabs. Pull it towards you one position and it's in Forward. Pull it again and it's in reverse.

On the 101 the stop button is in the correct position on the left panel not a switch between the gauges.

I know the sim has some limitations but if they can get the 101 right why not the 117? The controls are the same.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:33 pm**

749006 wrote: I know the sim has some limitations but if they can get the 101 right why not the 117? The controls are the same.

Possibly because essentially the 117 isn't an RSC product, but a re-released, re-badged offering from a different vendor. You could argue that it's a case of "tart it up a a bit, bang it out quick" but I imagine there's a lot saying "great stuff, I didn't get this before and when it disappeared I thought that was it..." Either way it's pretty sound economic sense from RSC, maximise profits (wages to pay etc, programmers beavering away to bring us core improvements don't come cheap) at minimal cost.
Thankfully we all have the option of not buying anything from RSC if we feel the quality isn't going to be up to what we'd expect but the (unanswerable) question still remains "what do we expect from a company trying to please the greatest number of customers?"

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:22 pm**

gptech wrote:
749006 wrote: I know the sim has some limitations but if they can get the 101 right why not the 117? The controls are the same.
Possibly because essentially the 117 isn't an RSC product, but a re-released, re-badged offering from a different vendor. You could argue that it's a case of "tart it up a a bit, bang it out quick" but I imagine there's a lot saying "great stuff, I didn't get this before and when it disappeared I thought that was it..." Either way it's pretty sound economic sense from RSC, maximise profits (wages to pay etc, programmers beavering away to bring us core improvements don't come cheap) at minimal cost.
Thankfully we all have the option of not buying anything from RSC if we feel the quality isn't going to be up to what we'd expect but the (unanswerable) question still remains "what do we expect from a company trying to please the greatest number of customers?"

Shame there is not a 'try before you buy' option as you only find out the errors after a purchase.

It will do as AI and I will use the 101 if I need a player DMU.
Now someone did a fix for the Gears for the 101 to get them in sync - but I forget where ?

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:10 pm**

david1 wrote:Most of DTG dlc is full of errors, I take you are referring to the second version of the class 101 that is set correctly as I have the first version which when it was released was dreadful, rear unit engine screamed and the whole set went off like a scolded cat until the community modified it. At least the class 117 goes like a wet paper bag, which was normal for 1st generation units as they lacked acceleration that the modern units have.

DTG is a mass produced conveyor belt of traction bang it out quick and move on to the next item like a production line at ford, if you want quality it takes a lot longer to make which is why 3rd party addons take around a year to produce and have quality like a Roles-Royce Rolls Royce

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:30 pm**

It is all a question of expectations in my mind, I think if you set off thinking DLC will be a carbon copy of the real thing then you set yourself up to fail.

I am quite happy with the 117 at is stands, needless to say that has not stopped me making modifications to it to suit my own preferences. The 117 I was running last night reaches 70mph, has 21" in the train pipe and the brakes work as they should. Performance also is to my satisfaction, sitting somewhere between the 117 as supplied and the 101.

The only thing I have yet to sort is the screaming trailing cars. I know fixes are available for the 101 and I have referred to these for pointers, but I am no expert on the scripted aspects of these. These also seem to amend the sounds and I am definitely in the minority when I say (again) I am quite happy with the sounds until something else comes along.

If anyone can provide advice on how to rid the 117 of the scream I would be eternally indebted

,

Kindest Regards,

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:49 pm**

rfletcher72 wrote:If anyone can provide advice on how to rid the 117 of the scream I would be eternally indebted ,

Kindest Regards,

Not sure if this will work with the 117 but I got around the scream in the original 101 by switching through the cabs at the start of a scenario and manually setting the gear lever to position 4 in any and all driving vehicles in the formation.

Regards,

1S81

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:49 pm**

rfletcher72 wrote:It is all a question of expectations in my mind, I think if you set off thinking DLC will be a carbon copy of the real thing then you set yourself up to fail.

I'm not expecting a carbon copy but I don't expect visual faults which are basic errors - like the Direction Selector being in the wrong position and the Vacuum Gauge showing wrong.
If DTG releases a loco or unit where there are obvious visual errors should we ignore them because it's wrong to expect something we paid for to be correct.

Have a look at the 101 and the controls and positions of the handles & gauges are correct.
Was it too much to expect that the 117 would be correct?

From your opinion obviously so

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:00 pm**

Have you compared the .bin files of the 101 and 117 to see if they give a clue as to what *needs* changing and just how *easy* that may be to accomplish?

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:21 pm**

But why should users have to make modifications - those who can, by the way - to overcome basic faults?

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:36 pm**

gptech wrote:Have you compared the .bin files of the 101 and 117 to see if they give a clue as to what *needs* changing and just how *easy* that may be to accomplish?

Cant be that easy or DTG would have done it.

1S81

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:41 pm**

gptech wrote:Have you compared the .bin files of the 101 and 117 to see if they give a clue as to what *needs* changing and just how *easy* that may be to accomplish?

I think the key lies in the scripts Gary to be honest. I suspect it is something to do with the 'consist message' parameter (or similar) between the cars, but that is where my vague knowledge of the subject ends. I am also keen to retain the current audio as I don't mind it.

1S811985 wrote:
rfletcher72 wrote:If anyone can provide advice on how to rid the 117 of the scream I would be eternally indebted ,

Kindest Regards,
Not sure if this will work with the 117 but I got around the scream in the original 101 by switching through the cabs at the start of a scenario and manually setting the gear lever to position 4 in any and all driving vehicles in the formation.

Regards,

1S81

Thanks 1S81,

I will give this a try.

749006 wrote:I'm not expecting a carbon copy but I don't expect visual faults which are basic errors - like the Direction Selector being in the wrong position and the Vacuum Gauge showing wrong.
If DTG releases a loco or unit where there are obvious visual errors should we ignore them because it's wrong to expect something we paid for to be correct.

Have a look at the 101 and the controls and positions of the handles & gauges are correct.
Was it too much to expect that the 117 would be correct?

From your opinion obviously so

I had enough cab rides in DMU's in my youth to know what I was looking at in the 117 was wrong. However, my point is that to me, my expectations are that the DLC should provide a reasonable interpretation of the DMU driving experience. For me, the 117 does that, I reckon more so than the 101.

But at the end of the say, for the 99% of users 'out there' who wouldn't know a Cravens from a Calder Valley, you have to ask what their expectations are with this, and any other DLC. DG must be doing something right in this regard as they are still trading.

Regards,

Richard

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:58 pm**

1S811985 wrote:
rfletcher72 wrote:If anyone can provide advice on how to rid the 117 of the scream I would be eternally indebted ,

Kindest Regards,
Not sure if this will work with the 117 but I got around the scream in the original 101 by switching through the cabs at the start of a scenario and manually setting the gear lever to position 4 in any and all driving vehicles in the formation.

Regards,

1S81

I have just tried this workaround in the 117 and I can happily confirm that this does get rid of the screaming

.

Thanks for this, I am sure I can trade off the extra legwork at the start of a scenario for the enhanced experience thereafter, until of course a permanent solution arrives

.

Thanks again,

Richard

Atomic Systems

Class 117 Errors

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