Atomic Systems

jimmyshand wrote:Incredible that the best form of control, Raildriver, is the least used.
If you conducted a similar poll on a flight sim website then how many users do you think would be using keyboard, mouse, HUD or Xbox controller? Almost none. They'd all be using a yoke or stick.
I think it must be purely down to cost. Raildriver is an amazing piece of kit and adds a step change in realism/immersion but it is incredibly expensive. If you're a serious train simmer though, then it is a must-have piece of equipment.

I think most people use the Keyboard because it's the easiest and it works on All forms of Traction.
Also, unlike a filght sim, the controls are just back and forward - you don't have to steer the train - inlike the flight sime or even a truck or racing car sim.

And I thought of Raildriver once - until I saw a video of someone using one and this large box infront of the monitor put me off.
Plus I use the computer as a computer so having to move the Raildriver out of the way each time I wished to do something else was another reason.

So how does the 86 and 87 work with the raildriver ?

jimmyshand wrote:Incredible that the best form of control, Raildriver, is the least used.

If you conducted a similar poll on a flight sim website then how many users do you think would be using keyboard, mouse, HUD or Xbox controller? Almost none. They'd all be using a yoke or stick.

I think it must be purely down to cost. Raildriver is an amazing piece of kit and adds a step change in realism/immersion but it is incredibly expensive. If you're a serious train simmer though, then it is a must-have piece of equipment.

For me, it is cost. I am an avid flight simmer and I also enjoy driving games but I can't afford the most expensive Saitek yoke, pedals and throttle quadrants for flying or a premium steering wheel and pedals for driving, so I have less expensive but still decent quality alternatives (£40 each) because I do believe, at the very least, a cheap joystick and cheap steering wheel is required to get any sort of control 'feedback' from a flight sim or driving game. With a train simulator, there is no cheaper control option, only a piece of kit that costs about £150 and IMHO, I don't think it is an absolute requirement to gain a good degree of control over a simulated train or locomotive.

jimmyshand wrote:Incredible that the best form of control, Raildriver, is the least used.

If you conducted a similar poll on a flight sim website then how many users do you think would be using keyboard, mouse, HUD or Xbox controller? Almost none. They'd all be using a yoke or stick.

I think it must be purely down to cost. Raildriver is an amazing piece of kit and adds a step change in realism/immersion but it is incredibly expensive. If you're a serious train simmer though, then it is a must-have piece of equipment.

I am a serious train simmer and I don't have it and have never felt I am missing out!

Peter

749006 wrote:And I thought of Raildriver once - until I saw a video of someone using one and this large box infront of the monitor put me off.

Like a real train cab you mean? Train drivers have a set of levers in front of their monitor (window) which they use to drive the train

Trains are driven by levers and handles not buttons, Xbox controllers or mice. Raildriver enables you to drive by feel. The instant close control you get over braking in particular has to be experienced to be understood.

theorganist wrote:I am a serious train simmer and I don't have it and have never felt I am missing out!

Peter

Me too. Call me an imperialist but it looks a bit too 'American' for my liking,

Regards,

theorganist wrote:

jimmyshand wrote:Incredible that the best form of control, Raildriver, is the least used.

If you conducted a similar poll on a flight sim website then how many users do you think would be using keyboard, mouse, HUD or Xbox controller? Almost none. They'd all be using a yoke or stick.

I think it must be purely down to cost. Raildriver is an amazing piece of kit and adds a step change in realism/immersion but it is incredibly expensive. If you're a serious train simmer though, then it is a must-have piece of equipment.

I am a serious train simmer and I don't have it and have never felt I am missing out!

Peter

Trust me you are! If you've never experienced Raildriver then you won't miss it because you don't know any better.
I once offered to lend my Raildriver to someone whilst I was away and they refused on the basis that they knew they'd never be able to drive Railworks again without it!
You only miss something if you've experienced what it's like to have it.

I actually use Cab Controls, Keyboard and F4 Hud, but I primary use my Xbox controller.

My #1 choice isn't there - 2 Saitek throttles on either side of the keyboard gives me 6 levers and 12 switches, and I can configure them any way I like UNLESS the loco has scripted throttle, brake etc. Can still use them, but am limited to what the levers can do and it's quite clunky (normally use keyboard for scripted functions).

I've had a Raildriver for quite some time now (I think close on 10 years) and I rarely if ever use it as I can't get precise movement out of it. Shift a lever a little and nothing happens...shift some more and I get a 40% movement. Stop moving the RD throttle and the in game throttle jiggles back and forth. I'm putting it down to being an early generation unit. It's sheer size is a bit of an issue too. It's become my most expensive paper weight.

jimmyshand wrote:

theorganist wrote:

jimmyshand wrote:Incredible that the best form of control, Raildriver, is the least used.

If you conducted a similar poll on a flight sim website then how many users do you think would be using keyboard, mouse, HUD or Xbox controller? Almost none. They'd all be using a yoke or stick.

I think it must be purely down to cost. Raildriver is an amazing piece of kit and adds a step change in realism/immersion but it is incredibly expensive. If you're a serious train simmer though, then it is a must-have piece of equipment.

I am a serious train simmer and I don't have it and have never felt I am missing out!

Peter

Trust me you are! If you've never experienced Raildriver then you won't miss it because you don't know any better.
I once offered to lend my Raildriver to someone whilst I was away and they refused on the basis that they knew they'd never be able to drive Railworks again without it!
You only miss something if you've experienced what it's like to have it.

I've used Raildriver and found it completely unimmersive (there's no direct antonym for immersion as far as I know, so I'm making one up!), even moreso if driving steam locomotives. There's no right or wrong though, it's all opinion. I have to admit, I find the preaching of Raildriver a little irritating at times too. Using RailDriver doesn't mean you're a "true" or "hardcore" player, nor is it an essential piece of kit.

Slightly more in line with the thread, I use cab and keyboard controls usually, but tend to use the F4 HUD when testing out scenarios as it's easier to replicate different driving styles that way.

Natvander wrote:My #1 choice isn't there - 2 Saitek throttles on either side of the keyboard gives me 6 levers and 12 switches, and I can configure them any way I like UNLESS the loco has scripted throttle, brake etc.

Being a regular FlightSim enthusiast, I've really wanted to be able to use my Saitek X52 for TS2014 control, but I thought it wasn't possible. Is there a reference anywhere that explains how this might be possible? If so, is the sensitivity of the throttle controller good enough ?

Natvander wrote:My #1 choice isn't there - 2 Saitek throttles on either side of the keyboard gives me 6 levers and 12 switches, and I can configure them any way I like UNLESS the loco has scripted throttle, brake etc. Can still use them, but am limited to what the levers can do and it's quite clunky (normally use keyboard for scripted functions).

I've had a Raildriver for quite some time now (I think close on 10 years) and I rarely if ever use it as I can't get precise movement out of it. Shift a lever a little and nothing happens...shift some more and I get a 40% movement. Stop moving the RD throttle and the in game throttle jiggles back and forth. I'm putting it down to being an early generation unit. It's sheer size is a bit of an issue too. It's become my most expensive paper weight.

If you contact Raildriver Support they may be able to help you.
http://raildriver.com/

Keyboard settings here, but mapped for Xbox controller using Pinnacle Game Profiler.
The way I have the controller mapped makes more sense to me, also was using this combination before in-game controller support

Nic

Keyboard, only because of poor implementation of a Rail-driver like Device. I have the Rail Driver, and the added feel, and rumble is incredible fun for a train sim......if only it would work with even 80% of the locos. If only it allowed for in game calibration. If only there was a way for the game to give feed back to it, so a lever in a position meant a specific level in game. The problem boils down to zero attempts by Railworks team to provide any in game support for the controller, as they could have done such as the indie simulator Zusi has done. If a one man coded train sim can do excellent support, there is no reason the Railworks team could not. Can anyone imagine a driving sim not supporting Logitech wheels? It just makes zero sense, and would be a boost to the attraction to the game. Of course P.I. Engineering has not been much more helpful. The Rail Driver itself is solidly constructed, and works great on older sims, and on teh original MS train sim. it could use a software update though, considering the addition of support now for the xbox controller, there is no reason P.I. Engineering could not take advantage of that for better support. I guess they have decided it's just not worth it without a more direct relationship with Dovetail. It's a sad state in my opinion, and a huge gap that needs filling. I can get decent hardware to add to the controls to every other PC type simulator game, ....but not TS2014..... Any given Japanese console has a better train sim controller in the myriad of Densha De go controls, some of which are quite nice. This doesn't need to be complicated. I still recommend the Rail Driver for the die hard TS2014 fan, as it is a LOT of fun when it works, and it seems to really be again made well. However, until Dovetail decides to support it in game for calibration and information feedback, or another company takes advantage of the gap and makes something better. (would love a controller that included PZB/Sifa, and LZB controls and display that actually worked with feedback from game)....I guess I will mostly stick to my keyboard.... but not because it is remotely ideal.

I wouldn't have though raildriver would be that suitable for steam engines?!

I would rather spend the money on routes and stock I don't have than a rather cumbersome looking piece of hardware I don't have the space for!

I am very happy using the keyboard, cab controls and the HUD!

Peter

I think there is a flaw with older Raildriver units. I bought mine about 4 years ago, well into the life of the product and it works with 80% of stock and is ultra precise on both throttle and brake.

I still think cost is the big issue. If Raildriver was £40 then I bet all the RD bashers would lap one up in a heartbeat. There's a gap in the market for a budget train sim controller. With the apparent success of RSC I'm surprised that one of the big joystick manufacturers hasn't sensed the opportunity.