Atomic Systems

749006 wrote:
Basically if you were lucky enough to go to the event you could have the game but if you could not make it hard luck?

Well, you can change that to: if you are lucky enough to have a well-paid job, you can buy any add-on. If you are not, it then gives you the right to download an illegal copy?

Software may have various terms and conditions to acquire a license... in most cases it is just about purchasing it. But it's up to the developer to choose what the conditions to get a copy are. If one respects intellectual property of others, you should also follow anything what the owner of such property asks for.

Obviously this Train Day event was used by Amtrak to promote their brand. If you were not there, you were not the "target" of this and you are not eligible for the free copy. Simple as that.

jstange wrote:

749006 wrote:
Basically if you were lucky enough to go to the event you could have the game but if you could not make it hard luck?

Well, you can change that to: if you are lucky enough to have a well-paid job, you can buy any add-on. If you are not, it then gives you the right to download an illegal copy?

May I ask what makes it illegal if the makers of the game itself choose to send you a code after having run whatever checks they deem to be needed? surely in the end so long As that code is given by DTG and entered into steam to start the download process then there is nothing against the law taking place?
As for the terms and conditions they made no mention of needing to be a US resident until AFTER many of us had applied. therefore is it so unreasonable for those of us who applied in good faith before the changes to the T&Cs were made to hope to receive what we applied for?

trainfan11111 wrote:

jstange wrote:
Well, you can change that to: if you are lucky enough to have a well-paid job, you can buy any add-on. If you are not, it then gives you the right to download an illegal copy?

May I ask what makes it illegal if the makers of the game itself choose to send you a code after having run whatever checks they deem to be needed? surely in the end so long As that code is given by DTG and entered into steam to start the download process then there is nothing against the law taking place?
As for the terms and conditions they made no mention of needing to be a US resident until AFTER many of us had applied. therefore is it so unreasonable for those of us who applied in good faith before the changes to the T&Cs were made to hope to receive what we applied for?

This^^

Many of us applied before the Ts&Cs were changed.

And if DTG wanted just those people who visited the show to get this game why not put a code on the card they picked up ?

Would have been nice, I did not get a code.

Are the codes all the same?

This whole offer has been mis-managed by DTG and / or Amtrak. In principle, having people take a card at an event in order to get a free product has worked many times for many publishers. But when the redemption process simply asks for a person's email address and name, the exclusion of any means of checking for evidence of the visit to the event leaves the whole offer open to massive abuse.

I also wonder at the legality of changing the terms and conditions of the offer once the redemption process is open. Having said that, those Ts&Cs have always said that users should have attended that event AND collected a card there. The update that I saw merely added the requirement that users are resident in the U.S.

It makes me wonder where I would stand had I attended the event and received a card, being resident in the U.K. with an email address ending in .de ... I wonder how long and hard I would have to fight to claim my free product, since I'm sure that the first response would be that I am not (now) entitled in these circumstances.

As far as I'm concerned, this is yet another nail in the coffin of DTG credibility as a trustworthy organisation.

How many (like myself) only applied because it was free?
Not being eligible for the offer (like myself now the conditions have been amended) in this case isn't a great cause for concern---I still won't have a route I have little real interest in, but that won't make life any less bearable.

This picture must show the essence of this little storm-in-a-teacup?

http://www.atomic-album.co.uk/showPic.p ... rOffer.jpg

gptech wrote:How many (like myself) only applied because it was free?
Not being eligible for the offer (like myself now the conditions have been amended) in this case isn't a great cause for concern---I still won't have a route I have little real interest in, but that won't make life any less bearable.

Key to most terms and conditions for things will be a clause that states offers, prices and dates can all be changed or withdrawn without prior notice.

Edit: and having checked it is there clearly at point 9 of the conditions, as are the points about possibly verifying residency etc.

We kinda need DTG to comment on this for clarity.

If I have to pay for the route, I'll do it if it's such a big deal, even though the original Ts&Cs mentioned nothing about living in the US and the Reuters article which I read a while ago mentioned nothing about picking up a postcard.

Personally, I feel that there should've been a note about picking up a postcard next to the actual form, rather than in the Ts&Cs at the bottom. *EDIT*: There is a note, I just can't read.

I'll go ahead and say I never read Ts&Cs, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people don't read Ts&Cs either.

MattH2580 wrote:We kinda need DTG to comment on this for clarity.

If I have to pay for the route, I'll do it if it's such a big deal, even though the original Ts&Cs mentioned nothing about living in the US and the Reuters article which I read a while ago mentioned nothing about picking up a postcard.

Personally, I feel that there should've been a note about picking up a postcard next to the actual form, rather than in the Ts&Cs at the bottom.

I'll go ahead and say I never read Ts&Cs, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people don't read Ts&Cs either.

In the note next to the form it said about picking up a postcard, and it always did say it there next to the form.

deltic009 wrote:In the note next to the form it said about picking up a postcard, and it always did say it there next to the form.

Oh; I must be blind

I must say that I am thankful that I didn't apply, as I have no interest whatsoever in U.S. routes. I can however empathise with the guys who thought that they were on to a good thing.

I don't for the life of me understand why, if you had to attend the event in order to qualify, that the code required for free purchase was not printed on the card you had to pick up at the event itself. Furthermore it appears that some people within the UK did receive a code for the free route whilst others did not, presumably a hasty rethink after DTG had a deluge of people asking for a code...............all in all, a bit of a c0ck up.

MattH2580 wrote:

deltic009 wrote:In the note next to the form it said about picking up a postcard, and it always did say it there next to the form.

Oh; I must be blind

Maybe


I've put the relevant section in red to try and highlight it, but it is right by the input boxes.