Class 91 on sale

[theorganist]

It's been intimated that people in the more, shall we say glass half full or even three quarters full camp, are stupid or even been called muppets for purchasing RS/DTG DLC, which I think is out of order personally!

Where was that then? Haven't seen anything like that on here.


Rik.

Well the thread or posts within the thread which contained the word muppet were removed.

Peter

[Wikkus]

It's been intimated that people in the more, shall we say glass half full or even three quarters full camp, are stupid or even been called muppets for purchasing RS/DTG DLC, which I think is out of order personally!

Where was that then? Haven't seen anything like that on here.

Well the thread or posts within the thread which contained the word muppet were removed.

And rightly so if that's the sort of behaviour exhibited. In a public forum such as this, regardless of how each of our opinions may differ, as soon as people start reducing it to personal insults, they've lost the argument and it changes a discussion into a slanging match.

Rik.

[jp4712]

Wait! So you think the sounds are terrible... but... you don't have it? I think it's only fair to be clear about that.

I have it and you can put me in the glass half-full group, I'm having a blast with it. I have created a Newcastle - York scenario, sadly so full of circa 1991 era payware that I don't feel able to inflict it on the downloads library. When you put the reverser into F the spool-up takes me right back to evenings photting 91s on York station of an evening, and makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.

Paul


East Coast 91115 'Blaydon Races', York, January 2014 by jp4712, on Flickr

[crumplezone]

In regards to sound discussion, I can pinpoint the issue with the 91s soundset, no running sounds on dvt or 91 and the motor whine on the 91 at speed.

This video is hosted by YouTube, a site which is outside of the editorial control of UKTrainSim and as such Parental Control is strongly advised.
To view the video, click on the PLAY button.
If you click anywhere else on this video, you will be taken to a YouTube page, where you may find yourself subjected to content that you feel is offensive.
If you feel THIS video is inappropriate, please report it to a moderator immediately for prompt action. in this video, if you listen from around the 3:50 mark onwards the 91 has got up to 90mph+ and you can clearly hear the motors screaming in a insulated cab.

DTG have stated they have recorded from a real 91, but I'm not entirely sure how they missed that quite obvious and distinctive sound.

In regards to the question why is it acceptable to just wait for AP to fix it? Because in general AP will change the entire soundset to a much better experience with interactive motor sounds, real track rumble/joint sounds aswell as other various additions which are missed in the 91 (throttle lever silent anyone?) and give it a much more immersive feel in the sound department.

I think the biggest factor comes down to question is, is the sound currently giving you the feel that the 91 set is actually at 125mph? I can say no from my experience due to the lack of running sounds which give it the sense of speed and any other cab rattle sound you may hear. But some will be happy with what is available.

I think the main point people are making is, if DTG are going to make the effort to make a fully accurate model, then also say they have recorded sounds then one would expect from a professional company who is supposed to have a sound engineer to actually implement most of the sounds properly and with proper fading, refinement and proper volume gains. But as noted, most people just shrug this off and say "well AP can fix it later" which really shouldn't be a valid reason or a excuse for a professional company. If a 3rd party developer, who has alot less money to throw at a recording session can do better than a professional company then it does bring alot to question.

Its not say DTG is doing a bad job or that people are knocking them, its just DTG should be expected to do better in the sound department if they are going to go full hog on the rest of the DLC, especially when they have bigger resources available to them.

[dougiec]

Personally speaking, there are lots of great things about the Class 91 and a few bad things too. I work with these trains every day and there are some aspects of the model's accuracy I'm very pleased with. Then again, some areas really let it down!

The sounds are very hit and miss. The track sounds aren't great at all, although the 91 generally sounds as it should, although when the fans start up, there is generally a two stage noise, and there is a distinctive hiss as the loco begins to move.I heard these sounds the first time I loaded up a test scenario with the train, was very impressed, although since driving it, I haven't heard them again! The fans start up and shut down when fwd/neutral is selected, which is fine. The horns sound alright to me, fairly accurate to how they sound in real life, and I like the fact that when the button is held, the horn continues to sound. The aircon in the DVT cab is quite loud in real life, so thats quite accurate, although externally there is nowhere near as much noise emitted from the DVT. There doesn't appear to be any sound from the parking brake, and anyone who's been near by when this is applied will know its a very abrupt and strange, almost rude noise! It would be great if it had the same level of advanced controls as the AP Class 90, but I'm willing to settle for the basic.

It looks great, modeled with very high external accuracy indeed. I'm a little puzzled as to why they chose to release it in InterCity livery, with un-refurbished loco exterior yet refurbished interiors and post GNER Mallard program coaching stock.

It will be a great model once better sounds are made available and I'll look forward to some reskins and the release of JT's Newcastle - Edinburgh, another route where this train will be right at home.

I think it's just about worth the money. Its £3 less than the AP Class 90/DVT Pack which has way more variety of liveries, superior sound quality and far more advance controls.

But that is my opinion.

[Wikkus]

Wait! So you think the sounds are terrible... but... you don't have it? I think it's only fair to be clear about that.

I don't have it and I read this thread with genuine interest to decide if I could justify the cost of buying it. I just reread my initial post(s) and can't see where I implied that I'd bought it...?

On the other hand, faced with documentary evidence from a number of sources, I formed an opinion of it and expressed my disappointment. Were it one dissenting voice in a crowd of otherwise satisfied customers, my opinion would likely have been different, but it isn't and it's not; it's several people and not just here on UKTS. Is that so wrong? Or am I expected to not research or seek opinion and just blindly purchase whilst trusting that RSC/DG might get it right?

Rik

[batling]

I know the test trains were formed of Mk3 SLEP's but I don't have the Class 67 so can't use the Intercity livery, squint a bit.

Ok, having set up a test train using an HST power car as a DVT, I can confirm after running from Peterborough North Yard to Huntingdon that all systems were working adequately on 91011. All tests completed successfully.

Oh, and it goes like hell (Technical Term) having no trouble at all reaching its design speed of 140mph. Well, nothing would if it had a combined 7,000hp!





Also, the use of the AP Mk3 sound pack makes all the difference to immersion.

Ant

[Wikkus]

Personally speaking, there are lots of great things about the Class 91 and a few bad things too. I work with these trains every day

Really useful Dougie, thanks.

I think the main point people are making is, if DTG are going to make the effort to make a fully accurate model, then also say they have recorded sounds then one would expect from a professional company who is supposed to have a sound engineer to actually implement most of the sounds properly and with proper fading, refinement and proper volume gains. But as noted, most people just shrug this off and say "well AP can fix it later" which really shouldn't be a valid reason or a excuse for a professional company. If a 3rd party developer, who has alot less money to throw at a recording session can do better than a professional company then it does bring alot to question.

Its not say DTG is doing a bad job or that people are knocking them, its just DTG should be expected to do better in the sound department if they are going to go full hog on the rest of the DLC, especially when they have bigger resources available to them.

Nailed it, Crump. That's exactly my thoughts on the topic, well put.

Rik.

[AndyUK]

In regards to sound discussion, I can pinpoint the issue with the 91s soundset, no running sounds on dvt or 91 and the motor whine on the 91 at speed.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

This video is hosted by YouTube, a site which is outside of the editorial control of UKTrainSim and as such Parental Control is strongly advised.
To view the video, click on the PLAY button.
If you click anywhere else on this video, you will be taken to a YouTube page, where you may find yourself subjected to content that you feel is offensive.
If you feel THIS video is inappropriate, please report it to a moderator immediately for prompt action. in this video, if you listen from around the 3:50 mark onwards the 91 has got up to 90mph+ and you can clearly hear the motors screaming in a insulated cab.

DTG have stated they have recorded from a real 91, but I'm not entirely sure how they missed that quite obvious and distinctive sound......

Perhaps it wasn't moving during the recording?

Andy L

[rosebay]

A corection to my earlier post about my YouTube channel with class 91 videos on it,the link actually is http://www.youtube.com/user/avocet1989
not the one I posted,my mistake sorry.

[37114]

I know the test trains were formed of Mk3 SLEP's but I don't have the Class 67 so can't use the Intercity livery, squint a bit.

Ok, having set up a test train using an HST power car as a DVT, I can confirm after running from Peterborough North Yard to Huntingdon that all systems were working adequately on 91011. All tests completed successfully.

Oh, and it goes like hell (Technical Term) having no trouble at all reaching its design speed of 140mph. Well, nothing would if it had a combined 7,000hp!





Also, the use of the AP Mk3 sound pack makes all the difference to immersion.

Ant

I'm pretty certain they were BR blue sleepers and there's some of those provided with WCML Over Shap.

[37114]

DTG have stated they have recorded from a real 91, but I'm not entirely sure how they missed that quite obvious and distinctive sound.

The sounds are definitely from a 91 but I get the impression they only recorded a stationary one.

[msey0002]

I think the biggest factor comes down to question is, is the sound currently giving you the feel that the 91 set is actually at 125mph? I can say no from my experience due to the lack of running sounds which give it the sense of speed and any other cab rattle sound you may hear. But some will be happy with what is available.

Regarding the sounds, this is it for me too. And this is what I would certainly look for in a high speed train, the feeling of moving at speed.

[crumplezone]

Quite possible, though I would have thought they would have been able to have got permission to cab ride and use audio equipment.

I'm fiddling with the 90 sounds and the 91s bins to see if I can combine the loud blowers with the whine you hear on the 90 as you reach higher speeds to get the same effect as the video I posted, but with the bins not being your normal setup its proving to be problematic. Plus I haven't got the .dav converter tool at the moment to pinpoint the sounds filenames to ingame sound effect.

For example the blowers seem to be referenced under the undercarriage bin and not in the motor's bin files on the 91. Also problematic getting the bogie sounds on the 90/dvt to work with the 91/dvt due to as there is 3 sets of bin files referencing bogies.

Its somewhat of a headache to get what you want when there seems to not be much logic to the folder and bin structure compared to other releases.

I'm getting to the point I feel I'll just leave it to AP to sort rather than continue to mess around with it for hours on end.

[DaveDewhurst]

Looking in the manual
The "Rolling Stock Audio" is credited to Ian Bishop.
He makes a lot of DCC sound sets for model trains, If you search You Tube for legomanbiffo you'll see some of his stuff.
Doesn't mean "All" the sounds were his, but some of them must have been

Dave